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OMF: BG Source Status
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MageKing17



Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 533
Location: A computer, inevitably.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven wrote:
Ruining your day in 3.. 2.. 1..

You guys are level 1 adventurers drooling at the idea of getting that legendary unobtanium sword and killing the evil warlock king, forgetting all the while that it's not the sword that keeps you from your glory.
Even if you get the source code to the engine you're going to find so much Windows XP and Direct X 8 specific code that rebuilding it will make OpenOMF look like an unfinished python tutorial. Rob Elam is right to use Unity for whatever his next project is. Everyone here that wants OMFBG back should follow his example: grab your favorite free off-the-shelf game engine and work towards what you want.

You're assuming A) that anybody was expecting this to be compileable right off the bat and B) that nobody already has experience with this kind of project. I can't speak for everyone, so maybe A is warranted (but I already mentioned it would not be on IRC), but B is definitely wrong.
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dvereb



Joined: 21 Jul 2001
Posts: 409
Location: Erie, PA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to assume that getting OMF:BG to a playable state on Windows 7 is far from impossible. If I remember correctly, we were mainly hung up on the input in the menu system? Yes I know I won't be running a Linux client any day soon. I'm excited to see the project up on github some day, is all. In the meantime I'll sit back and continue dreaming of my Unobtanium Sword. I 100% disagree that people should "grab [their] favorite free off-the-shelf game engine and work towards what [they] want." I want OMF:BG, and I plan to have it. If I fail, that's fine, but at least I'll have tried. Chances are I won't even be able to get the project to build, but I bet someone will.

Worst case scenario, assuming the source code is released, .... is that I have the source code to one of my favorite video games. I'll put it on a disc right next to my copy of the game, my poster, and other such nonsense that my wife would like to get rid of. ...speaking of which .... where the hell did that omf shirt go, anyway.
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Raven



Joined: 14 Oct 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MageKing17 wrote:
You're assuming A) that anybody was expecting this to be compileable right off the bat and B) that nobody already has experience with this kind of project. I can't speak for everyone, so maybe A is warranted (but I already mentioned it would not be on IRC), but B is definitely wrong.

I said neither of those. I said I believe OMFBG's codebase is deep enough in Windows XP and DirectX 8's proverbial pants that the effort to make it usable on any modern OS will make the effort taken to reverse engineer OMF2097 seem insignificant.
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MageKing17



Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 533
Location: A computer, inevitably.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven wrote:
I said neither of those. I said I believe OMFBG's codebase is deep enough in Windows XP and DirectX 8's proverbial pants that the effort to make it usable on any modern OS will make the effort taken to reverse engineer OMF2097 seem insignificant.

Even if all input, output, and file-handling needed to be rewritten from scratch, it would still be more useful than trying to reverse-engineer anything blind.

Also, I'm not sure why you think code written for Windows XP and DirectX 8 is wholly incompatible with Windows 10; literally the only thing stopping BG from running normally is the input bug, which can be fixed with dxWnd (and according to dxWnd's creator, it was an easy fix).
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Malfrex
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Joined: 27 Jul 2000
Posts: 2098
Location: Vancouver, BC/Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to try and cut some headway off here... I'm still talking with Rob, I got my main rig up and going again (yay!). He also has a "day" job and is working on Sentinels in his spare time. He has some deliverables due early next week so hopefully he'll be able to dig stuff up after that. The biggest hurdle we had was getting ahold of Rob and getting the communication going... which we have now.

Without seeing the code base I can't say how difficult it would be to get OMF: BG running on a modern OS. OMF: BG was built using VC++ 6... this was from before .NET came out. I can 100% guarantee importing it into VS 2015 it will not compile. That is a MASSIVE jump in revisions. I'll have to dig through my old school disks to see if I still have my student version of VC ++ 6 to try and use... if that'll even run on Win 10.

The big hurdle we have with getting BG to run on a modern Windows base is the keyboard input. It was changed between XP and Win 7 (possibly Vista... I never ran that abomination). The signals still send, but the OS doesn't know what to do with them. That'd why DxWnd allows it to run. In fact, it's the "type" of signaling used that causes the problem - lots of XP games still work on modern OSes, we just need to implement the non-borked one in the engine. The other "glitch" is the bloom doesn't render correctly and just makes everything white.

For a possible positive, Rob did say he continued to develop the engine post OMF: BG. I don't know if that included upgrading it to at least .NET - I know he was looking into it at the time - but if he did, that may resolve the keyboard problem there, if we can compile.
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MageKing17



Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 533
Location: A computer, inevitably.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malfrex wrote:
I can 100% guarantee importing it into VS 2015 it will not compile.

I can't; the project file is obviously useless, but whether or not the code itself can compile depends on what libraries it relies on (if it relies on no-longer-supported Windows libraries, then obviously that'll need some work); the code itself should still be valid even in a C++17-enabled compiler.

And obviously if Rob has to strip any major components out for licensing reasons, that'll interfere with compilation for sure.
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raptor
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Joined: 02 Sep 1999
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Location: Sandefjord, Norway

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And thanks Malf for splicing off the thread :p
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