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***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions***
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Gila



Joined: 01 Mar 2002
Posts: 222
Location: Santa Rosa, California, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

oh...well...fine.

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Mogusha



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

Gila seeing as there are many problems with the earning money to upgrade (IE hacking to get more money) I don't think that that would be a good idea.
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Gila



Joined: 01 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

well if the world was all well and good we would not have the hacker factor to worry about and my plan would go on but scince you are very correct i guess my idea just plan blows
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

Quote:
Originally posted by killer_roach:
So Flail 3 was what, like 6000-7000 polys? So what... that's the typical number of polys of a DOA3 model... and if the Xbox can handle that many polys, a high-end computer should have no problems at all... especially when the typical polygon budget for trying to take full use of an Athlon XP and a GF3 would be in the vicinity of 250,000-300,000 polys/scene with minimal effects, and about 100,000 with full effects (or more). If you ever wonder about the plausibility of this, try to find the original X-Isle tech demo that Crytek did, massive numbers of polygons thrown at your system with very little slowdown until it starts doing resource-intensive effects (like cubic environment mapping, translucent/transparent models and the like). Very cool...



6000 polys?!?!?!? Dude, for your bot to be imported into BG, you need a 250 poly version. No joke. As far as I remember, you need a 250 poly, 500 poly, and 750 poly model for the different detail levels. No higher.

The DEV team originally wanted this to run smooth on a P233 w/GeForce. I've heard they changed to somewhere around 300-400 or so, but still dude. The poly counts your talking about are for >1.5s with GF3s; No ordinary comp will do that. The game isn't supposed to be MADE to make full use of an Athlon/GF3 because nobody has those specs. You are also not counting any effects, anything like hazards and powerups, and most importantly the ARENAS, which are like >10k polys each. There's no way you can have a 4000 poly model. The XBox probably runs at 736x486 (NTSC) resolution; this game with an Athlon >1GHz and GeForce3 is supposed to run the game smoothly (>40FPS) with at least 1600x1200 w/anti-aliasing. Count 40FPS scene poly-counts on THAT. You need to GREATLY reduce the poly count on that flail.

Have fun.

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RN2804
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

Quote:
Originally posted by killer_roach:
So Flail 3 was what, like 6000-7000 polys? So what... that's the typical number of polys of a DOA3 model... and if the Xbox can handle that many polys, a high-end computer should have no problems at all... especially when the typical polygon budget for trying to take full use of an Athlon XP and a GF3 would be in the vicinity of 250,000-300,000 polys/scene with minimal effects, and about 100,000 with full effects (or more). If you ever wonder about the plausibility of this, try to find the original X-Isle tech demo that Crytek did, massive numbers of polygons thrown at your system with very little slowdown until it starts doing resource-intensive effects (like cubic environment mapping, translucent/transparent models and the like). Very cool...




this would be that game, Serious Sam can do better.





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Gila



Joined: 01 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

about your flail and having 6000 polys I think that OMFBG should have 2 versions: the one game to play on 400mhz/Geforce, and the one game to play on the 1.4Ghz/Geforce4.

Then the game will be accesable to the serious gamers and the ones who like to play a few games in there spare time
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Icewing



Joined: 07 Nov 2000
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

aren't omf:bg 'bots supposed tobe 2500 polys each for "high detail" settings??
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Mogusha



Joined: 04 Feb 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

Quote:
6000 polys?!?!?!? Dude, for your bot to be imported into BG, you need a 250 poly version. No joke. As far as I remember, you need a 250 poly, 500 poly, and 750 poly model for the different detail levels. No higher.

The DEV team originally wanted this to run smooth on a P233 w/GeForce. I've heard they changed to somewhere around 300-400 or so, but still dude. The poly counts your talking about are for >1.5s with GF3s; No ordinary comp will do that. The game isn't supposed to be MADE to make full use of an Athlon/GF3 because nobody has those specs. You are also not counting any effects, anything like hazards and powerups, and most importantly the ARENAS, which are like >10k polys each. There's no way you can have a 4000 poly model. The XBox probably runs at 736x486 (NTSC) resolution; this game with an Athlon >1GHz and GeForce3 is supposed to run the game smoothly (>40FPS) with at least 1600x1200 w/anti-aliasing. Count 40FPS scene poly-counts on THAT. You need to GREATLY reduce the poly count on that flail.


Much has changed since you last steped foot on this message boards soil. The bot poly count has been increase to 2500 polys each bot and the lesser I e the old 750 models ( I believe it was) will be the lesser.. the min specs have been increased to a 500 MHz machine with 16 meg vid card though.
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Robyrt



Joined: 09 Sep 1999
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2002 3:19 am    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

1. You don't need 6000 polys for a good model. Your average 3D fighters get away with that amount only because they have 2 fighters and an arena onstage, not 8 fighters with variable Net connections. BG uses 750 for low detail and 2500 for high detail, and 2500 really WILL use your GF3 if you join a multiplayer battle royale.
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Allanmenef
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2002 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

It wouldn't be hacker proof, but nothing is. They could make a system that would check the money against the total earned in the fights, against the total of the opponent. Then they could make sure that you didn't suddenly earn 6,000,000 k when the match was only for 4,000 k. You could still throw a match to give a friend money, since you get more $$ than you lose. That is not hacking.

I would like to see a tournament mode like in BattleDrome, where you can "wager" on the match, and the opponet can pull out if you get too cocky. I used to be able to get my wagers PERFECT on that game. I made BUXX and had the best Herc, until I upgraded to Windows.
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LoneWolf



Joined: 12 May 2001
Posts: 8379

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

grrh... Batcave shut down my site while I was away for 4 weeks, and I can't sign up again... oh well

I decided to start work on yet another Flail , though I'm having trouble getting the body right. I'll figure it out.

as for ... I have my own ideas.

Basicly, there's a special online tournament, it's free to sign up for but you don't get anything for winning. The fights are recorded, rendered in super-high quality, then put on tapes and sold to TV stations like ESPN or UPN or such. The TV stations pay DE for the tapes, air the fights, and it's like a One Must Fall style WWF or something.

DE puts nothing in(except the game)
the players get to have their fights televised, so that's payment on it's own.
the TV stations get another cheap show.
DE gets all the money.

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Robyrt



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2002 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

Lonewolf: That would work much better for VF IMHO... you can easily make 30 minutes a week of TB tournys, and you don't have to do weird stuff with camera angles like you would for BG, and you get some REALLY high-caliber stuff in Japan (people like Chibita and Kyasao have already done TV spots).
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2002 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

Sorry guys, I guess I was kindof in the dark about the whole poly-count thing. But still, 4000 polys is still way high. If a 750 poly count is required, then you will need to optimize a LOT. My heavily unoptimized model of the original Electra for OMFWZ is 236 polys. Course, that's electra; my Nova model is 4000 polys, only cuz of the high-geom spheres at the limb joints. If I wanted to import into BG I could easily lower.

However, if the flail you're designing isn't for BG, but rather for anything that doesnt require real-time rendering, then don't even try to lower the poly count. My shadow model is 24k polys; I'm not using it real-time 3D anywhere, so it's pointless to lower the count. It would just make it look worse. It's just for 2D rendering for the game (and FMV sequences), so I'm keeping it at 24k polys. So if your flail is say for the OMF movie, then you should likely keep the high-polycount (but well-proportioned) version.

And also, I didn't manage to see any of your pics yet; I can't seen to get around the hotlink blocking on your web host. I'm not about to download opera, so is there some other way to get it to me?

Maybe you could just throw together a webpage in notepad for it. Copy-paste this into notepad and save as index.html in your website:

<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
<img src="flail.jpg">
<img src="flail2.jpg">
<img src="flail3.jpg">
</body>
</html>

Try that. I'm sure you know html though, but I just put that incase you dont... I'd like to see that flail

Anyways, that TV idea is great! The only problem would be finding a TV show that would show the fights.

It would be really cool though to have matches televised. Depending on the realism of the depiction of size, it might spark a lot of interest in regular people. If the bots really do look 100-foot tall robots, it would be much more interesting that simple VF. And the scripting's not a problem, If I got the opportunity to get my BG match televised, I'd love writing a camera script for it!

However, I could just imagine something like that on paperview. I doubt many people would pay, but if it's like 50 cents then lots of kids and such might love to watch a string of BG fights, or say a half-hour of a BG knockout tournament of 8 ppl. That would be sweet. If the profit went to DE they could make a lot of cash!

And, if cash like that would roll in, I'm sure DE would build like 20k poly models of the bots (and perhaps million-poly models of the arenas) for high-renders of televised fights. Maybe all sorts of detail additions, with all sorts of rendering stuff such as super-quality dust around in the desert, or real waves like in The Perfect Storm for the Iceberg, or lots of shrapnel seen peeling off where the bot is hit...

Just a suggestion

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[This message has been edited by Vuen (edited 03-10-2002).]
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Icewing



Joined: 07 Nov 2000
Posts: 2115

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2002 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: ***Suggestions for OMF:BG expansions*** Reply with quote

Quote:
Originally posted by Vuen:
I'm not about to download opera


I pity you.
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PhreakyByNature



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bringing this back... My OP regarding different angles/genres in the OMF Universe was awesome. Just saying.
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