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Uberpowered and hinterpowered?
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Crashed



Joined: 26 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:20 am    Post subject: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

To start things of, let's get to the extremest things first. Wich bots do you consider most out of balance (The strongest one and the weakest one) overall?

I myself havent played in a while, so I'll remain opinionless for the time being. :p

One more thing, let's not turn this "Balance" board in a "Flame" board, ok? Wink
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

I consider mantis most overpowered, followed by gargoyle, beyond those, none is really sickly overpowered (imho), but theres still are issues with others.
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Wraiyth



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

If any were underpowered, I'd say Katana with the exception of the rolling blade > rising blade link
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Dyras



Joined: 26 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Keep in mind, Mantis and Gargoyle can both get their metal butts handed to them by proper use of Force, Pyros and Katana.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Quote:
Keep in mind, Mantis and Gargoyle can both get their metal butts handed to them by proper use of Force, Pyros and Katana.


depends on the mantis and gargoyle's skill.
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eengoedemorgen



Joined: 30 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Yes, I know, but that rule counts for every har..... Still, I can beat some sh** out of a good Gargoyle, but usually then my luck runs out, and the enemy learns not to use air attacks at first, and not hang around at midrange... and other stuff, or I start lagging an insane amount...

As for Balance..
Uberpowered: Mantis
Hinterpowered: Katana, except for that counter combo, that's sick enough to make the bot uberpowered.
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mrguytodd



Joined: 23 Jul 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

I think force needs to have its power brought up 1000 points, and all the other ones down to 1. This will balance the game out perfectly.
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Zelig



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Quote:
I think force needs to have its power brought up 1000 points, and all the other ones down to 1. This will balance the game out perfectly.


Sure, as long as Force gets his armour reduced to 1, and all the others up to 1 000. Wink

Although that would lead to less variety in HAR power/armour, so the fast ones would benefit the most...
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, I know, but that rule counts for every har..... Still, I can beat some sh** out of a good Gargoyle, but usually then my luck runs out, and the enemy learns not to use air attacks at first, and not hang around at midrange... and other stuff, or I start lagging an insane amount...

As for Balance..
Uberpowered: Mantis
Hinterpowered: Katana, except for that counter combo, that's sick enough to make the bot uberpowered.


depends what you call a good gargoyle.

If you abuse Gargoyle the right way, you'll giv eeveryone a hard time.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

I think Garg is the main thing right now. There are advantageous quirks with other HARs, too, but Gargoyle seems to be the only one overpowered in such a general level. As for hinterpowered... I don't think I can pick one out.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Quote:
I think Garg is the main thing right now. There are advantageous quirks with other HARs, too, but Gargoyle seems to be the only one overpowered in such a general level. As for hinterpowered... I don't think I can pick one out.


I think Mantis is by far the most uberpowered.

I think the biggest imbalance about Mantis is that all his heavies make the opponent hang in mid air, have insane priority, and can be chained randomly and all link.

What I mean by 'hang in mid air' is, say you're Force, and try doing a standard frk lk lp combo. If the enemy jumps right before the frk, after the lk he drops to the ground. End of combo. Try the same thing with Jag: lk rp rk lp. If the opponent jumps right before the lk, it slams him to the ground and the rp misses. End of combo. It's basically the same thing for all robots except Mantis. Regardless of whether the opponent is in the air or not, he can just churn away the combo seamlessly and the opponent never drops to the ground.

They also have insane priority. This issue has been discussed at length.

They also link to anything. You can basically press all of mantis' heavies randomly, and everything either links and continues the combo, or resets the combo ('ground fragment'). This means that a Mantis player can use its highly varied heavies in any combination and still churn out all his heavies together. For example, if it needs high priority, in start with rp. If it needs to punish a counter, it can start with lp. If it needs to chew stun, it can start with rk. If it needs to break a turtle, it can start with lk. Either way you swing it, it can link all its heavies together with nearly no change to escape.

Other robots don't have this variety. Force is stuck with frk lk lp/rp or flp lp. If you want to start with the counter-punishing lk or the high-priority rp, you simply don't get to throw in those extra moves you miss out on. Too bad for you. Same thing with Jaguar; if you start a combo with rp, you just don't get to use lk.

It's side punches are also extremely unfair. They have a delayed hit independant from the move, which means you can't interrupt a side punch; even if you start a combo on a Mantis, if he side punched earlier it gets interrupted because the little flea hits you. Worse, the Mantis can combo his side punches, and combined with its 'hang in mid air' heavies you take tons of damage from a side punch. Plus they do heavy damage. I mean, I can understand variety, but it's the only robot that has either of these imbalances in its side punches, and having them both is ridiculous.

The spider infestation super is also absurd, although nobody seems to agree with me, so I won't bother annoying people with it.


As for Gargoyle, it's very hard to make a determination on its balance because it has tons of quirks that are hard to figure out whether they are bugs or not. For example, you can't evade after doing a leg grab, making you completely vulnerable (thus making the move completely useless) in a ffa. In a super glide, the enemy can evade out and punish you. Super scream seems to do almost no damage whatsoever (all those hits total about half a regular heavy). Many of its animations are also misleading; I'm not a gargoyle player, but often he'll put his feet right through you and the hit actually comes much later. It also has at least one ridiculously fast and high-priority punches. In any case I'll let others figure out whether it's unbalanced or not.


Hinterpowered, none really stand out, but I'd say partly Katana and partly Chronos. Katana just doesn't have enough health, and Chronos has some confusing and useless light moves. Like Chron's flp for example. Slower than most heavies, light damage, and doesn't link to squat. What's the deal?
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Endy



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Quote:
I consider mantis most overpowered, followed by gargoyle, beyond those, none is really sickly overpowered (imho), but theres still are issues with others.


THE HEAVIES ARE TOO FAST.

WARLORD HITS AS FAST AS KATANA
PYROSED LK IS BUGGED TO [filtered] AND MAKES DESYNCH ISSUES BECAUSE IT HAS NO WARMUP TIME

MANTIS SPAMS LIKE A [filtered] AND CANT BE EVADED OR PUNISHED

KATANA CANNOT BE PUNISHED AND THUS BECOMES A SPAM MACHINE WITH INFINITE COMBO POSSIBILITIES AND NO POSSIBLE WAY TO EVADE!#%^&*()*)_

GARGOYLE DOES AS MUCH DAMAGE AS HEAVY HARS BUT HAS UNEVADABLE AIR COMBOS




YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA same old [filtered] who cares omg they dont make patches anyway !@#$%^&*($%@#&^I*












The only balanced har is chronos... and his RP has desynch issues like pyroses LK.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Endy, caps lock doesn't help your arguments. For the most part I agree with you, but you really gotta learn how to present your arguments. You're damaging our credibility by posting like this.
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Endy



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Quote:
rolling blade > rising blade link


OMG DESYNCH UP THE HIZZLE



OVERHAUL speed and priority. It's [filtered] how some attacks are fast and have low cooldown (warlord LP) and other attacks are incredibly unwieldy and have massive cooldowns (jags RP) yet both do similar damage (HIGH).



THERE IS SO MANY ATTACKS THAT UNFAIRLY LINK TOGETHER ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY ANYMORE. JAGUAR MANTIS KATANA CHRONOS FORCE [filtered] [filtered] EVERY [filtered] HAR.












yuaaaaads0fjishg]had]p
fkhm
psfkl
sf

LOOK IM SPAMMING
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Endy



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Uberpowered and hinterpowered? Reply with quote

Quote:
Endy, caps lock doesn't help your arguments. For the most part I agree with you, but you really gotta learn how to present your arguments. You're damaging our credibility by posting like this.


My credibility is already in the [filtered]. I have no credibility. I think I have negative credibility.




... people think that means I don't understand the issues. Thats just not true.



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