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Mantis
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Okay, Spiders can be considered decent super, because the vast majority of discussions on them show that people are too stupid to walk away from them.

The Flies - I honestly think that this is the best super in the game, period. It does hit land opponents at a higher range than they or you can normally hit at, making it all the more brutal a surprise. You can combo out of it, it protects you while you do it, and it does excellent damage. Think of it as Super Gravity Well, except it can hit a lot of people, can be used defensively when under almost any kind of attack, and protects you from everything that isn't directly behind you.

The slide is a berserker dash that lifts you high enough to avoid getting interrupted by others and can be comboed out of. It also has no delay whatsoever and covers a goodly distance without warning and can be linked to by any attack Mantis has.
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Player



Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 1344
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

As a person who plays Mantis, I think the supers are underpowered, except when used in the middle of combos.

I'll use Super Spiders when the opponent wants to fight a projectile war, and I just want to melee fight. They must dedicate their energies to escaping the spiders, while I close the distance between us. I never hit good players with the spiders, because they're too intelligent to not stand in one place.

At first glace, Super Flies seems like a safe super, that can net you a low damage combo afterward.
This is not the case.

When people launch defensive flies, simply strafe a little to the right, jump, air evade right, and start a combo on their behind.

Super Slide is a joke. In combat, the hit detection is so awkward. You'll slide toward the opponent, you'll hit them, and about a second later your super will begin. During this second (or before the Mantis play reaches you) it is rediculously easy to evade to the side, and launch your best possible combo against the Mantis player, while he sits on the ground waiting to recover. It reminds me of how Jaguar's Leap used to be.

Anyways, Mantis' main problem is RP, I think I'm known for abusing it.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

mantis super fly swarm is pretty nice when close to walls Mordy, you should try it when facing a wall, with the opponent standing against it, very nice in that situation Smile
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Mordax



Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 1584
Location: Mars

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Yeh, it has use in one specific situation, oh well this makes it the best super in the game, im totaly gonna use this all the time now because people are like always up against walls
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

SpookyNutz was the first RP abuser i played! fighting him used to make me nuts!

i also think his supers kinda blow
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Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 3803
Location: <3

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

ok that anonymous crap is really annoying, that was me on accident
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeh, it has use in one specific situation, oh well this makes it the best super in the game, im totaly gonna use this all the time now because people are like always up against walls


Its also good in combos, the game has a good share of more useles supers.
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IcoN



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 1325
Location: Behind Blue Eyes

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Bleh, RP spam, what next.
The move has a windup, jesus. I /know/ a Jaguar evading RP can f.rp his way through any of this RP crap, and that's just one example. Sad

Also, if you think the fly super is useless, you need about another 6 months to a year of playing time as you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Sad
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:15 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Quote:
Bleh, RP spam, what next.
The move has a windup, jesus. I /know/ a Jaguar evading RP can f.rp his way through any of this RP crap, and that's just one example. Sad

Also, if you think the fly super is useless, you need about another 6 months to a year of playing time as you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Sad


Jaguar roll to the left side might work, most other HARs couldnt do that.
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Mordax



Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 1584
Location: Mars

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Quote:

Also, if you think the fly super is useless, you need about another 6 months to a year of playing time as you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Sad


Its a lower range version of Super Concussion Cannon

Anything it can do, CC can do better

It has no range, it does low damage compared to others, It leaves you open to anyone not caught in the attack

Oh wait, anyone who back attacks is a lamer, sorry, you all have to finish your super long combos without any fear of being backstabbed because you cant be bothered to learn FFA tactics and/or are too obsessed with showing off your latest super combo

This is the second reason I havnt posted for a long time, the game is there for MORE THAN 2 PEOPLE MULTIPLAYER, THIS IS ITS PURPOSE, it pisses me off that rather than adapt for Free For All which would add stratagy in deciding which combos and stuff to use when, you just pretend it doesnt exist

Oh no, this Super Combo is NO use in FFA, lets pretend it doesnt exist so that I can get automatic wins over anyone else
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Lurker



Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 4696
Location: The underworld

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Regarding Super Fly...

- enemy can't evade out of it
- you can combo out of it
- you are invunerable to melee attacks while shooting the flies(and anyone who touches you gets stuck in the flies) (in my past experiances)
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Well, any high melee attacks (almost every punch and many kicks) will miss Mantis while he's down that low firing the flies off, and your attack will likely throw you into the hit zone for the flies.
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Mordax



Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 1584
Location: Mars

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

The simple solution is to use a kick that will hit him, problem solved
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

Quote:
Spiders: Can be countered by running, they are too slow to catch you

Flies: Lower range version of concussion cannon, only affects people in the air or RIGHT in front

Slide: High chance it wont go off at all, have to know exactly when to use it to get it to work

No where near what the other HARs have


I cannot BELIEVE you guys are complaining about Mantis' supers. I've never heard anything so absurd. Mantis has the 3 best supers in the game.

Spiders: Why does everybody ignore the fact that you're VULNVERABLE while running away?!? Everybody keeps saying that you can just walk/run away; is everyone forgetting that you still have the Mantis to worry about? This super is amazing. You can chuck it behind the enemy, and they have absolutely no choice but to run towards you to escape! The initial bomb is unblockable, and even if they counter it, it still goes through them and explodes. The spiders are unblockable and uncounterable because they complement eachother to punish a counter. The startup is instantaneous, because if you hit the mantis while starting the move, the bomb explodes DIRECTLY ON YOU. With this super a mantis can GUARANTEE that damage is done. In a FFA, as soon as two others pair off, the Mantis can throw a bomb right in there from a mile away and reap the benefits without even remotely any danger; think super concussion cannon, but unblockable and way more damage.

Slide: Count em up:
First off, it does 99 initial gracy damage; for comparison berserker dash does 87.
Second, you are completely safe while doing it, because it brings you high in the air. You can do it in the middle of a 10 person mash without even worrying about how to protect yourself. Try that with BD.
Third, you're ducking while doing it, making it automatically and unconditionally outprioritize every high-hitting move in the game. On top of that it still carries a truckload of priority against low moves, and is ridiculously fast.
Fourth, it has a huge side radius, and tons of forward range.
Fifth, it DOES go off a lot more often than berserker dash; ever tried doing a berserker dash on someone walking away? BD won't even go off at all. This 'having to know when to use it' can be said about every move in the game. You expect it to just 'work' without having to learn when to use it?
Sixth, unlike berserker dash, you can combo out of it. The enemy bounces TWICE after this super; if he air evades after it, he's toast, because Mantis has a ton of moves that move a ridiculous amount forward and can wail on a floating corpse seamlessly.
Seventh, it often picks up more than one opponent. In the Mantis HAR masters tournament, you can pick up both enemies in the super at least once per 3 minute round.
99 damage x number of enemies caught, plus being perfectly safe while doing it, and the ability to combo any of them? Need I go on? Yet another example of a move doing way too many things at once. I simply fail to see a downside of this move.

Flies: As The_Ghoul said, you are almost completely invulnerable when you're doing this, because you're ducking and the flies come out almost straight up. Why is it that Mantis has the only 2 supers in the game where you duck? You can combo basically anything out of it, and it racks up a ton of hits; in demolition it alone almost guarantees you the highest hit combo award. It catches anybody within a remotely close range, and nobody can counter it because either they're just too far away or they'll get hit after they counter (another of those independant delayed hits). It may seem that it doesn't do much damage, but that's only when used as a combo starter because it drains the hit meter so fast; it does almost the same amount of damage when used in a combo, much more than most other supers in the game.

Quote:
The simple solution is to use a kick that will hit him, problem solved


Most robots don't have such a kick. For example, Force, Jaguar, Pyros, Warlord, Katana, Gargoyle, oh, and also Chronos, have no attacks that go under it. The only robot than can 'slide' under the flies is, unsurprisingly, Mantis with its slide move.

Conclusion: Mantis' supers are ridiculous. I find it unbelievable that you guys are complaining.
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: Mantis Reply with quote

super spiders is crap. they are good for manipulating your opponents space but you can do the same thing with reg spiders. sure theres a lot more but theyre so slow still and control only slightly more space

slide is ok

flies just arent that scary
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