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Useless Moves...
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:33 am    Post subject: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

I want to start a list of moves that are reendered completely useless by their linking capabilities, as well as their range, speed, and frequency of hit.
As a bonus, I want to award certain HARs with the following titles:

Owner of most useless super: Gargoyle (Super Scream)
Owner of most useless heavy move: so far Gargoyle (a.RK)
Owner of most useless light move: Chronos (fLP)
Owner of most useless special move: Undecided (Warlord's left Mortar or Jaguar's left aerial Leap)
Owner of most useless evades: Undecided (probobly Katana)
Owner of most useless counter: Undecided (probobly Warlord)
Owner of the largest array of useless moves: Chronos (4)
Worst Ever Teammate: Force

Anybody is free to argue and submit information that should alter our minds into certain directions. Just dont go on about the most useful moves, because there are just so many of them, and one for each situation. This is about generally useless moves.

I'll start
Chronos has, in my opinion 4 useless moves, and deserves the titles Owner of most useless light move and Owner of the largest array of useless moves.
fLP, is light, slower then most supers, knocks the oponent down with no bounce. IVE HAD MANTISES SLIDE ME WHILE I WAS STILL RECOVERING FROM IT! Can only be linked to fRP, and only if you start the combo with it. Can be linked from a number of moves, but there is absolutely no way to continue the combo after it. Very slow. Can be seen coming years away. Pathetic damage. Easily earns the title of most useless move in the game
fRP, not quite useless for its fragmenting capabilities. Dows not link without fragment to both LK and RP, as well as some j.__ moves. It is also very quick. However, it has absolutely no range at all. When linked in LK > RK > fRP you actually have to walk forward to plant it. Also, when projected onto an airborn oponent, it will not hit him forward, but stall his falling for a moment. As you recover, the enemy will only lose about half a second's altitude, which can only be regained with fLK. Now fRP can be linkes EASILY from fLK, but not backwards, so you have to push your luck getting to it in time. Oh and, hardly links to anything at all actually...
fRK, not really a bad move, if you dont use it in a juggle. If the oponent is in the air, instead of hitting him upward, it hits him forward and a little up. Although it's range and linkability make it a nice combo starter, it is light. Useful for reaching oponents that are flying away though, and adding a final touch before distarding the combo.
a.fRP is almost as good as fLP, only it links more frequently. It just as brazenly knocks the oponent to the ground with a very small bounce that can not be followed by anything, unles you have a very quick pilot. It can be linked from a number of air moves, but the combo is officially discarder after. It is also light and very un ranged. I personaly only found one good use for it. a.fLK > a.fRP at the end of a long air juggle. a.fLK is too useful in other areas though, so this is a bad plan, but in my "longest no special move combo" I use this link at the very end, as a.fLK does not fit anywhere else in the combo.

Also Chronos is definately a candidate for most useless super. The ground freeze. Something Ambush its called. It is very effective in FFA and LMS, as it hits a maximum of 4 oponents around oneself. However in team fights it hurts friendlies cought in the freeze as well, and needless to say is that it takes a full second to charge, which is often fatal if you are looking for an area effect. It can not be comboes from anything in air juggles, can be fragmented off some ground combos, and can only be comboed out of by throwing the RK stasis crystal with a.fRP

Also, Gargoyle is a definate candidate for most useless move with a.RK, as it comboes into absolutely nothing. It IS useful for getting close quickly, but you can't exactly do anything from there, and its easy to counter. Can be nice to end combos with though. Oh yeah, it's heavy, so that makes it not all that useless, but it is definately the most useless Gargoyle has, and a candidate for most useless heavy.

Katana earns my vote for most useless evades. Hers are slow and not very ranged. Also she is taller then normal when performing them, making her easier to catch. Her evasive jumps make up for this, but they take eternity to charge, and you can not turn towards your enemy when performing them. Personally, I thought Katana wold be the uber manuverable HAR when I first tried her. I wanted to circle my oponents, not ever letting them even see me, as I do with Breeze in Echelon. Instead I only get cought more often by evading...

Most useless special move is easily Warlord's mortars. Especially the right one as its slow as dirt and difficult to aim in distance, because the oponents always move. Also extremely easy to counter.
Jaguar's bbLP is also a candidate.

Most useless counter makes me decide between Warlord and Jaguar. Mantis and Gargoyle come close, but Warlord and Jaguar seem to get killed very often by doing theirs. Chronos and Pyros have the best counters, while Katana and Force can do killer combos out of theirs. Actually I think Mantis can as well, so there.

Cast your vote, but remember that I started this and IIII get the final vote on wether something is more useless then something else.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

mostly agreed, though id say pyros SFS and SFT are also candidates for most useles super, i find warlord mortar quite good to be honest (since its difficult to do anything against it but dodge, counter/blocking is suicide), Mantis counter doesnt have a cooldown but can only (RK)Slide out of his counter, not much combo there.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

SFS is an 8 (i think) hit super that kills everyone around you, and can be comboed into. Bad super?
SFT is pretty useless yes, if you miss. Otherwise you can get a few easy hits without much fear, unles you miss a little and someone counters. Still Chronos's ground freeze is worse.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

Super Laser. Not totally useless, but weak and redundant, since he already has a multi-hit projectile super.

EDIT: SFT combos out of RK! What's not to like about it? High damage, large area, long duration...
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

Yeah I was thinking about Super Lazer, but its homing. Super CC is also homing, and bounces, butif you miss you waste a shot, while Super Lazer keeps going until it hits, or the time ends.
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FlamingMonkey



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

I'm not sure if you stated more than one correct piece of information just there. Super CC does not bounce, Super Laser reflects off of some surfaces. They both do a bit of tracking, but Super CC does more of it. Neither of them just keep going until they hit something.

And I wasn't saying that it's an altogether bad move, I said it's useless, which is quite different. Super CC's existence makes Super Laser almost totally redundant.
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 360
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

SFT is an AWESOME move, you should see the damage it does compared to most other supers, you can get up to 6 hits and 80+ damage with lower power pilots by pressing 4 buttons, its a GREAT crowd control move and awesome if you do 3 in a row when they dont expect you to have full energy. SFS is good as u can combo out of it from air attacks, you only get about 5 of its 8 hits but its better than nothing, only problem is its tendancy to just randomly miss from time to time but *shrug*. Pyros' supers are VERY useful just not in EVERY situation like perhaps Beserker Dash or the Time Accelerated Combo etc etc.
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FlamingMonkey



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

8 hits? How come I always get around 11 if I combo RK->SFT?
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

you can't combo out of SFS :sweat2:

SFT is OK in crowds, in 1v1 its useless, and SFS range is pathetic...
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Wraiyth



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 3075
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

SFS is 10 hits, and I find it quite useful.
SFT is also quite useful; if it's timed right, it can be fragmented into a 25-odd hit combo.
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Mordax



Joined: 19 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

Mantis' Spiders, Mantis' Flies, the 2 most useless supers in the game
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

Quote:
you can't combo out of SFS :sweat2:

SFT is OK in crowds, in 1v1 its useless, and SFS range is pathetic...


Nobody said you can combo out of SFS. Someone said it can be comboed into.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

Quote:
Mantis' Spiders, Mantis' Flies, the 2 most useless supers in the game


In the first Mantis Masters match most of what I did was run away and spam Super Spiders and Super Flies. Its imposibly effective because it gets you scared.
I played you just two days ago, in the desert, and you spawned the spiders somewhere in the mines. I had to RUN because they can walk on the sand and not care for personal damage.
But although I agree neither is exactly the one super to use if nothing else works, compare it to Chronos's ground freeze...
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Robyrt



Joined: 09 Sep 1999
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

SFT is probably my favorite move. It does boatloads of damage even with a low-power pilot, it has plenty of range, it hits multiple opponents easily, it's uncounterable from max range vs. some bots. You just can't whiff it, that's all, much like whiffing a Super CC is also suicide.

SFS is admittedly the worst dedicated combo super, but it's still useful in combos. That's more than you can say for super mortar or Teleport Ambush.

Pyros LP should also be a candidate for worst heavy. There's really no reason to use it when you have RP, LK and fRP also available.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Useless Moves... Reply with quote

Quote:

Also Chronos is definately a candidate for most useless super. The ground freeze. Something Ambush its called. It is very effective in FFA and LMS


how is it useless if you admit its "very effective" in some situations? so dont use it when you have your team around you, problem solved
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