OMF:BG Message Board Forum Index OMF:BG Message Board
One Must Fall: Battlegrounds
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Gameplay Change Suggestions
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    OMF:BG Message Board Forum Index -> Balance
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 3804
Location: <3

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
the reason face spam isnt godly and the name of the game in other fighters is cause you get pushed back after a few blocked hits unlike in bg where its hard to be pushed back.


ya attacker gets pushed back in other games
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

In most games the blocking opponent also has a defensive guard like 'advancing guard' in the Street Fighter series or 'green blocking' in Guilty Gear XX; when you block a move you can tap a certain key combination to send the opponent rushing backwards.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 360
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Ok, suggestion Add Defensive throws? put some distance between a face spammer and yourself. Oh and i argue that counters are not useless against face spammers as they ALL put distance between u and your opponent allowing you to do something. Also a few moves work brilliantly against spammers, Force's LK being one of them as he moves out of range then slides in, great move for that situation.

Also if mantis is so overpowered why is he never used?? even when people get pissed and switch to a har to kick [filtered] with rather than a messing about har people usually go for force/jag/katana/gargoyle over mantis. I personally prefer Pyros to mantis, i cant do fk all in mantis cept button bash.
Mantis is better for button bashing htan other hars but once you reach higher levels of skill mantis' advantages make less difference. Its also one of the few hars that i can counter as u can usually rely on a mantis pilot to be constantly hitting at u Smile.
_________________
Favourite Pilot: Reece
Favourite HAR: Pyros
Favourite Arena: Desert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 3804
Location: <3

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

the problem with the game is that ever since its been made harder to get behind someone, its always been stuck on one of two ends: either turtling is too effective, or the face spam is too effective. i dont even really see how a good balacne between the two can be met really, when thers no threat of being stunned from block damage or tick thrown, the robots just become impenetrable fortresses. when there is, its just a gay spam and counter fest

there just arent really any other ways to attack when youve got one big universal block
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
Ok, suggestion Add Defensive throws? put some distance between a face spammer and yourself. Oh and i argue that counters are not useless against face spammers as they ALL put distance between u and your opponent allowing you to do something. Also a few moves work brilliantly against spammers, Force's LK being one of them as he moves out of range then slides in, great move for that situation.

Also if mantis is so overpowered why is he never used?? even when people get pissed and switch to a har to kick [filtered] with rather than a messing about har people usually go for force/jag/katana/gargoyle over mantis. I personally prefer Pyros to mantis, i cant do fk all in mantis cept button bash.
Mantis is better for button bashing htan other hars but once you reach higher levels of skill mantis' advantages make less difference. Its also one of the few hars that i can counter as u can usually rely on a mantis pilot to be constantly hitting at u Smile.


you have yet to fight a good mantis, apparently.
_________________

All errors in spelling and grammer are entirely by design in order to enrage those who have nothing left to add to the discussion and therefore seek superiority through personal attacks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
Ok, suggestion Add Defensive throws? put some distance between a face spammer and yourself. Oh and i argue that counters are not useless against face spammers as they ALL put distance between u and your opponent allowing you to do something. Also a few moves work brilliantly against spammers, Force's LK being one of them as he moves out of range then slides in, great move for that situation.

Also if mantis is so overpowered why is he never used?? even when people get pissed and switch to a har to kick [filtered] with rather than a messing about har people usually go for force/jag/katana/gargoyle over mantis. I personally prefer Pyros to mantis, i cant do fk all in mantis cept button bash.
Mantis is better for button bashing htan other hars but once you reach higher levels of skill mantis' advantages make less difference. Its also one of the few hars that i can counter as u can usually rely on a mantis pilot to be constantly hitting at u Smile.


First off, counters don't work in lag. If your ping is above 80 or so, you can't counter blocklock; the 'instantaneous counter' that's supposed to happen just doesn't. That's because of bad netcode. If the netcode were fixed, counters would be a million times better. And no, counters don't all put distance between you and the opponent; look at Force's counter. It chews stun (yes, you end up with less stun when you counter), does a gravity well (no pushback), and the enemy can evade it faster than you cooldown from it. In other words, countering a good player with Force is simply putting them at your sides. Totally useless when the opponent is expecting it. Force desperately needs a more defensive anti-spam move.

As for Mantis, dude, read the Mantis thread to see how many advantages you have. The stuff it can do is totally insane. Mantis >>> Pyros. Smart Mantis pilots don't face spam like that; you'll never see guys like Player just wailing spam on you. They use spiders to bait you and force you into the attack pattern they want.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xaronth



Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 6203
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

most of the time you cant evade from force's counter. it seems like a 60 or 70 percent chance your stuck in a long [filtered] combo.

and i still dont know the whole ordeal with this cant-counter-in-lag. i can counter just as easily with 80 ping as i can on 150 ping.
_________________
Xaronth's System Specs
Proud tester since build 1700, beta tester since build 1900
"Better dead than smeg." -Arnold Rimmer, Red Dwarf
"A thin line separates us. I call it 'talent'". -Ken Masters
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
most of the time you cant evade from force's counter. it seems like a 60 or 70 percent chance your stuck in a long [filtered] combo.

and i still dont know the whole ordeal with this cant-counter-in-lag. i can counter just as easily with 80 ping as i can on 150 ping.


???

Yeah [filtered] right. I'm not saying counter a single move. That pretty much always works in lag. I mean blocklock. You know how they changed it so that when you're blocking moves, a counter is always instantaneous? Well with over ~100 ping, it just doesn't work. You can mash the counter buttons all you like; you'll just stand there until you're stunned. Someone specifically tested it with me the other day (I forget who); by violently mashing the counter buttons the enemy always got in about 6 or 7 hits before the counter actually happened, and only because of the short pauses between moves. On an enemy with >100 ping you can safely do the Mantis progression lp rk rp with zero chance of it getting countered as long as the lp is blocked, just because the pauses in between the moves are short enough. That's 4 consecutive uncounterable heavy blocks; easily guaranteed stun on an already injured low endurance/armor enemy (like a Force or Katana). The blocklock counter doesn't actually work until the enemy tries a slower blocklock progression like rp rk or rp lp (which is also uncounterable with over ~150 ping). You can eliminate this slow progression by tacking on light moves with quick links after the lp rk rp like frp frk alk etc, meaning you can extend upwards of 9 blocks before the enemy can counter, and then all you have to do is pause and bait it if they do try it.

As for Force's counter, you can always side or back evade before the Force even lands back on the ground, because you get to evade before the Force cools from performing the counter. If you can't evade it you're just not doing it fast enough. That or the netcode ignores that you evaded because of lag.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

You tested it with xaronth, and he could get the counters during the blocklock. The secret about the effective blocklocks is that theres a short pause between the attacks every now and then, a well developed face spam is developed so that people will most likely attempt a counter during that period, which indeed makes countering impossible. However, supers like SFT, SCC, Super Laser etc all prove how when something is continuously hitting you, counters will be instantaneous, regardles of lag. This has been proven and performed, many, many times.
_________________

All errors in spelling and grammer are entirely by design in order to enrage those who have nothing left to add to the discussion and therefore seek superiority through personal attacks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number
NightShadow



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 2674
Location: Sennadar

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Except perhaps with 1000+ ping time, as those supers will already be finished by the time you get around to seeing them to try to counter. Yes, 1000+ pings are what I'm stuck with currently. Sad

Which reminds me, my gameplay suggestion is that I can play a lag-free game with 1000 ping. Very Happy
_________________
[Elite] pilot of the Force Flying Circus
"Just because you are unique does not mean you are useful"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Xaronth



Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 6203
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

i evade asap after forces counter and the only time from memory i can remember escaping is when i easily did it on you but other forces it seems to rely on lag.

counters are easy for me though
_________________
Xaronth's System Specs
Proud tester since build 1700, beta tester since build 1900
"Better dead than smeg." -Arnold Rimmer, Red Dwarf
"A thin line separates us. I call it 'talent'". -Ken Masters
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
However, supers like SFT, SCC, Super Laser etc all prove how when something is continuously hitting you, counters will be instantaneous, regardles of lag. This has been proven and performed, many, many times.


HA! SFT is not counterable in >100 ping. Why do you think Pyros firespins are so good? They are actually quite bad in single player, because they can be countered like a joke. It wasn't Xar I tested it with; it was a Mantis, like Mordax or Mad Dan or someone. We tested with eachother; he had about 50 ping and I had 120. He could counter the Mantis progression lp rk rp instantly on the second hit every time. It was totally uncounterable when he performed it on me.

Quote:
i evade asap after forces counter and the only time from memory i can remember escaping is when i easily did it on you but other forces it seems to rely on lag.

counters are easy for me though


You can always evade a Force counter. It doesn't matter what the Force does next because you can evade before he even finishes the gravity well! If you can't evade, once again you're simply not doing it fast enough.

I remember when I played you, every so often when I did get a counter you never evaded; I don't know why, because it's a joke for you to escape it, and everyone else does.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

hmm you also tested counters with xaronth, im pretty sure of that. Also as someone ALWAYS having had 100+ ping (unless i or another dutchy would host), i KNOW SFT is counterable.
_________________

All errors in spelling and grammer are entirely by design in order to enrage those who have nothing left to add to the discussion and therefore seek superiority through personal attacks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Xaronth



Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 6203
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

i honestly dont know why it wont work for me, when im using super fast pilots it works more than with kegan. i can enter my moves on the up most speed (ask tuf about it :biggrin2:) but i still cant evade that.

maybe i can and i dont think i can cause i dont play a lot anymore Sad
_________________
Xaronth's System Specs
Proud tester since build 1700, beta tester since build 1900
"Better dead than smeg." -Arnold Rimmer, Red Dwarf
"A thin line separates us. I call it 'talent'". -Ken Masters
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Most useful attack to perform right after a force counter is a gravity well, i know they dont combo together but its so extremely rare for one not to evade, that its your best bet in catching it.
_________________

All errors in spelling and grammer are entirely by design in order to enrage those who have nothing left to add to the discussion and therefore seek superiority through personal attacks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    OMF:BG Message Board Forum Index -> Balance All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 4 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

Style Blacker1 by Blacker47