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Gameplay Change Suggestions
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

The second gravity well often only catches them if they attack (unless you do super gravwell). If they land after evading instead of attacking from the air they can simply rape you for trying.
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NightShadow



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 2674
Location: Sennadar

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Yes, it is possible to evade immediately after a Force counter. It seems hit or miss, or some people can do it more than others, or something, but it can be done often enough for it to be dangerous. Also, like Vuen said, the grav well will not catch if you do not attack out of an evade, this is true mid-combo as well.

Also, Force's counters can actually completely miss, somehow, even in single player. I think this happens mostly when countering a forward thrusting move. For example, just the other day in single player, a mantis slide kicked me, I countered, but it was able to attack me from behind, being that the kick had moved it behind me.

About the only times I have not been able to counter SFT is either a) I counter at the wrong time and end up stuck in the counter animation during one of the gaps in SFT, and, b) when I have 1000+ ping, but then again, I've barely played with those ping times.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Well the counter also is extremely tricky, its effect carries till long after the animation, often when SFB or SFT is countered, and i jump or walk in after the animation, i still get sw00ped down.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Moral of the story: Force's counter is unbelievably terrible. Countering blocklock is total suicide, because it takes a third of your stun bar to perform the counter, which gets eaten when the enemy evades and punishes you, meaning countering = 2 full combos. I would kill to have even so much as Jaguar's counter in Force, nevermind counters like Pyros. It pisses me off that people have the nerve to complain about counter combos, especially Force's.

[filtered] this [filtered]. I'm learning Mantis (and learning MvC at the same time). No point in [filtered] around with some low tier HAR.

Also, I don't understand how you guys don't have problems countering blocklock. I mean even simple things like when a Jaguar does rk flp, which is an integral part of lk rk jag stunlock; the interval is extremely short, and I've never been able to counter the flp in lag even though it should be counterable with 100% consistency and I can and do counter it with 100% consistency when I'm hosting. Worse, when trying it in high lag even if you press it early enough you'll block the flp and then perform the counter on nothing, meaning an instant punish combo. That's why I hate playing in >80 ping. I hate it. I CAN'T STAND IT!!
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

you know if you just do nothing in force after countering you can block the attack coming at you, since most air attacks have a nice cooldown you can still have your combo :smirk:
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:12 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Sure, you try punishing Jaguar afrk or Mantis ark. Good luck with that.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
Sure, you try punishing Jaguar afrk or Mantis ark. Good luck with that.
i would assume you mean mantis a.LK?, either way jaguar isnt really a problem in punishing, repulsor gets most evades and punishes most attack so... Mantis simply has issues, that isnt a force-sided issue.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:20 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Oh yeah, I forgot about all 12 repulsor damage! Nevermind the fact that it also chews stun, so you'll chew up half your own stun bar by countering and repulsor. Rock on. Countering with style.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:23 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh yeah, I forgot about all 12 repulsor damage! Nevermind the fact that it also chews stun, so you'll chew up half your own stun bar by countering and repulsor. Rock on. Countering with style.


So now you're actually complaining how you can attack from a counter? If you don't want to use stun, stick to normals.
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 360
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

k ive fought a good mantis now, probably simply a ping victory but the mantis had 160 ping and beat me a few times before i got used to it. After that however i very rarely lost to it, was Ouch in the mantis btw. GG btw, i joined his server after but my pc siezed up and screwed up on reset so i went to bed.
Countering SFT is easy aslong as u do it at the end of sft.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

No offense to Ouch, but he's nowhere near a good Mantis.

Wait till you get to play Mordax or Mad_Dan, or better yet Player. Find Player and ask him to hand your [filtered] to you on a platter sometime.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
No offense to Ouch, but he's nowhere near a good Mantis.

Wait till you get to play Mordax or Mad_Dan, or better yet Player. Find Player and ask him to hand your [filtered] to you on a platter sometime.


No offense to Mordax or Mad_Dan, but the good mantis players dont start with them, player hasnt played much lately, though still is an amazingly skilled mantis whore, and mad_dan simply isnt anywhere in his range, i would honestly consider Ouch close to as good as Mordax and Mad_dan
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mrsiezen



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 1210
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Mad_Dan is good in Mantis, as well as uhm...ah [filtered], what's his name again? He's from Germany and fights with Walther AFAIK. He's pretty good in Mantis too.
Don't know about Mordax or Player. But Player prolly will be good, as usual :biggrin2:
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
Mad_Dan is good in Mantis, as well as uhm...ah [filtered], what's his name again? He's from Germany and fights with Walther AFAIK. He's pretty good in Mantis too.
Don't know about Mordax or Player. But Player prolly will be good, as usual :biggrin2:


Mad_Dan i could always beat semi consistent, player i could never get below 80% health consistently...
I dont know who you mean from germany, however there isnt really anyone else in the range Player was at, eezee and Muska are the only ones that come close, though i havent fought them much (havent played eezee at all to be honest), i generally got Muska down to about 60% of his health. :tongue2:
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veryorkish



Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 3196
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

eeZee was the best mantis whore I have ever played. But I haven't seen him post in forever...
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