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Gameplay Change Suggestions
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:46 pm    Post subject: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Okay, we've seen a lot of good points in the new balance forum; everyone is itching to have their gameplay suggestions heard, so what we need now is to organize it. To help DE out, we should figure out what changes are high priority and which are unimportant. This is where you suggest the most important changes you want made.

You may post a maximum of five gameplay changes. A change consists of any global change (i.e. increase overall evade speed or increase the impact of the agility stat), or any robot-specific change to one move or group of moves (i.e. change all gravity wells or change rp teleport). This restriction will force you to choose the five most important balance changes you feel are necessary. When posting your changes, add a brief explanation of why you think the change should be made. You can always edit your list later if you change your mind.

Note that since it's debatable whether or not something is a bug, your changes list should include the bug fixes you want. If you can't find room for all the bugs you want fixed, tough; you need to figure out what's more important to you. This doesn't mean you think any bugs you exclude should stay, but rather, they aren't as important as the other stuff you list. This thread should not be a discussion on whether or not something is a bug, nor is 'this is a bug' necessarily a valid argument for a change. If you want it fixed, include it in your list.

After everyone has suggested their changes, we can count up the most popular suggestions and submit it to DE as the 'official community suggestions' or something :p



Here are my suggestions; these are the five most important changes I feel need to be made. They changes themselves are highlighted for quick reference.


Global

[color="yellow"]Fix any unescapable ground fragments[/color]. Currently we've only found two, Mantis flp ! flp and Mantis frp ! rp, but there are probably more. You may want to add a rule to give robots evading or escaping after being hit a 1/4-1/2 second period of invulnerability to prevent this type of bug. Or, if you'd like to keep unescapable resets, make it so that it's not just Mantis who can do these.

Mantis

Side punches. These have to be nerfed somehow. Currently they have delayed hit (instantaneous warmup, interrupts enemy combo), AND can be comboed out of. One of these has to go. I'd say [color="yellow"]get rid of the ability to combo his sidepunches[/color]; make the bug knock the enemy out of range of attack.

RP. This move desperately needs a nerf: it carries a boatload of priority, lifts the opponent straight up allowing dead easy comboing, and is a thrusting move without a block penalty. Compare it to Force rp, very similar priority except it pushes way far and has a block penalty. I'd say [color="yellow"]make rp no longer thrust forward[/color]; Mantis has enough thrusting moves.

Warlord

LP. It has a hugely long hotspot length (there's a full second on Nitro that it will hit attackers), and has a large range. [color="yellow"]Reduce the range and hit length of lp[/color] a small bit, and add some loud sound to it Smile.

Chronos

Needs a fast ground move. Nobody can really play Chronos competitively right now because it's crap for hand to hand combat; you couldn't punish aggressive attacks if your life depended on it, because you don't have the speed and the links for it. Giving it something to poke with would give it a fighting chance at close range. My suggestion is to [color="yellow"]link frp to rp[/color]. This would give it basically exactly the same poke as Force flp lp, having a huge impact on its ground capabilities.


There you have it. Post your own change suggestions here!
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veryorkish



Joined: 23 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Pyros:
Nerf power stat
Nerf speed/priority on lk
Chronos:
Change a.frp to a non-down htting move
(personal preference) Make chrystals grabable but chronos shoots instead of throws with a little bit of cooldown. This will go a long way in making him more unpredictable.
Force:
Make a.rk only hit enemies in the front
Get rid of the bombs in hand requirement for super bomb
Mantis:
Decrease the range on a.lk
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Pyros:
LK Horizontal range decrease
LK Pushback decrease (make it punishable)

Mantis:
Give mantis some cooldown on a few more attacks
RP range decrease (possibly none-Thrusting)

Chronos:
Remove some ground to ground links, add a lot of juggling. (right now the ground part of Chronos combo's can just be way too long.)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

1) more decent non-combo normal attacks
2) revamped stun system
3) revert air evades from combos and all attacks that now catch air evades for free back to how they were when game was first released
4) faster gameplay
5) revamp close combat system so it doesnt revolve around counter timing and counter baiting
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Mordax



Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 1584
Location: Mars

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Alternatively they could disregard all that nerfing crap and fix the problems like this, making the game a whole lot funner, and then preferably not touch the balance so it can evolve on its own:

Jag:
Increase all evade speeds, priority increase on a few light attacks

Force:
Make energy gain by hitting slightly faster with this HAR, Damage increase on Grav Wells, Super Bomb and Counters

Pyros:
No changes needed

Warlord:
Have Warlord fall down after a spinny punch, Add damage to normal attacks on an arm with a Mace equipped, boost priority on LP Mace Special

Katana:
Lots more evade speed, small damage boost to all attacks

Gargoyle:
Add damage and priority to Aerial attacks, add speed to Air evades

Mantis:
No changes needed

Chronos:
Add a good ammount more armour, increase the speed of some attacks

While at face value i'm sure you all could find some "flaws" in it, I think this would open the doorway for the balance to evolve as it should do in a fighting game
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 360
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

I like Mordax's idea, (just a vote of support)
However my list of 5 things to change (as a noobie)
1.) Increase Chronos' Agil stat (logically he would be able to move fast through a constant automatic time acceleration/deceleration process) that and chronos can take a serious beating from agile bots atm.
2.) Reduce mantis priority slightly, I like mantis and hes great fun to use, his combos look ace BUT he has too high priority atm, dont nerf the moves in any other way because it will seriously mess his combos up
3.)Pyros - 2 parts to pyros, 1. Increase firespin damage, its only use is in a combo where its damage is what is it 15 or 10% so a slight increase in effectiveness is in order. Secondly increase cooldown on LK to encourage use of the far weaker FLK as combo starter. (LK should be left alone in other ways to be one of pyros' strong points)
4.)Gargoyle - Faster Glide speed.
5.)Reduce 'stickyness' of the spikes in the blast furnace, at the moment a counter from some bots will instant kill you, only long combos and certain specials should be able to do that.

3.) Reduce LK's damage to 30 rather than 43 leave it alone in other ways.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

a few flash in your reasoning, adding block-cooldown, will not have effect on a HAR's combos, meaning adding a cooldown to some of the hits that mantis performs into a block, would have a short cooldown.

Adding a longer cooldown to pyros LK would on the other hand do very little, Pyros LK already has a cooldown that leaves enough time to punish, however it pushes many HAR's away too far to punish it (As some HARs dont have attacks that could get there in time), Adding cooldown would not only reduce the gamespeed here, but would also give some of the ranged attack HARs yet another advtantage, since they can now pick ANY attack to start their combo with, rather then limited to just those few lights, and a few heavys on occasion. Where as reducing the pushback would result in the HARs that currently cant reach him in time, to be abled to reach pyros in time.

And im still convinced Chronos should get some better air juggles :p
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Mordax



Joined: 19 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

I seccond Cloudeh's suggestion along with mine, they seem compatible

Now all we need is more votes of support and then Malfrex or someone else close to DE can point it out and show them that we are in agreement
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
I seccond Cloudeh's suggestion along with mine, they seem compatible

Now all we need is more votes of support and then Malfrex or someone else close to DE can point it out and show them that we are in agreement


Since i argues 2 of cloudeh's points, obviously nor all of us are in agreement, actually at this moment only 2 people :\
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Mordax



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Having more block cool down would make LK riskier and thus promote fLK as the combo starter of choice, Cloudeh's point stands
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
Having more block cool down would make LK riskier and thus promote fLK as the combo starter of choice, Cloudeh's point stands


As in, it would make LK useles front the front, outside of combos. The cooldown already is plentyful, the pushback should be reduced... When you do fLK the block lock takes less time and the pushback is less too. Where the pushback different would actually cause then to be about as good as combo starters, the block cooldown longer would just make it (near)useles outside of combos from the front, since any HAR could just do their longest unevadable combo at that point.
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
This thread should not be a discussion on whether or not something is a bug


oh and, LK's pushback is part of the moves appeal increasing its cooldown would give hars who do block it time to close in and punish, oha dn due to the long animation of the move (comparitively) most pilots would have time to recognise it and use one of their thrusting moves to close the distance quickly its not that hard to do.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
This thread should not be a discussion on whether or not something is a bug


oh and, LK's pushback is part of the moves appeal increasing its cooldown would give hars who do block it time to close in and punish, oha dn due to the long animation of the move (comparitively) most pilots would have time to recognise it and use one of their thrusting moves to close the distance quickly its not that hard to do.


The problem is that that would give too much advantage to the HARs that can already easily hit pyros in his coolodwn. Not that ones that currently cant do it well.
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CloudFFVII



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

if they can easily hit him during his cooldown what difference would it make? they just have a wider range of moves to choose from, it would give them no greater advantage than their moves give them already *shrug*.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Gameplay Change Suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
if they can easily hit him during his cooldown what difference would it make? they just have a wider range of moves to choose from, it would give them no greater advantage than their moves give them already *shrug*.


Thats exactlt the point -_-
Which HARs are capable of attacking during the period atm?
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