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Why doesn't Force have a projectile?
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Fine, then we need to buff meteor call to make it faster, or buff throwables to make them better. Either way, Force still can't deal with a runner.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
The only attacks that effectively deal with runners are jaguar's lasers or warlord's missles (for their high range), the others are either too slow or too dangerous to perform.


How is anything dangerous to perform on a runner? As for slow, projectiles travel way faster than a person's running speed. I don't understand how they could possibly be considered too slow.


Too bad you still have to charge them... if the range on projectiles would be infinit as soon as you pressed the buttons, good point, obviously since this isnt true, projectiles need to be fast (charging AND traveling) to catch up with runners in large (most) arena's.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Ever thought of how this may be an intended weaknes for force? every HAR has its weaknesses, personally id much rather not be abled to deal with runners then not being abled to deal with things like projectile spamming or such, at which force is awesome.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Even with charging you can easily catch up to a runner! If you react fast enough with a projectile you can punish a runner quickly and easily. If you react fast enough with Force you can... gravity well? repulsor? Oh wait, the oh so amazing Meteor Call will save us!
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Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

so you hit a runner with a projectile IF YOURE LUCKY. big deal. he gets up and runs some more. if you think projectiles rock runners you need to install a pre-release version of the game without retribution and have a try at it =P
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Quote:
Ever thought of how this may be an intended weaknes for force? every HAR has its weaknesses, personally id much rather not be abled to deal with runners then not being abled to deal with things like projectile spamming or such, at which force is awesome.


Wait, refresh my memory: What's exactly is Mantis' weakness? Tell me Pyros' weakness while you're at it.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Quote:
Even with charging you can easily catch up to a runner! If you react fast enough with a projectile you can punish a runner quickly and easily. If you react fast enough with Force you can... gravity well? repulsor? Oh wait, the oh so amazing Meteor Call will save us!


wowzerz! 20 damage!? awesome... ever considered super firebomb? it has infinit range and awesome speed, if you want to kick runner butt, this is likely one of the best attacks in the game.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
Ever thought of how this may be an intended weaknes for force? every HAR has its weaknesses, personally id much rather not be abled to deal with runners then not being abled to deal with things like projectile spamming or such, at which force is awesome.


Wait, refresh my memory: What's exactly is Mantis' weakness? Tell me Pyros' weakness while you're at it.


Pyros weakness is that he can only do juggle combos, no ground combos or such.

Mantis weakness is his counter and his power stat.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
Even with charging you can easily catch up to a runner! If you react fast enough with a projectile you can punish a runner quickly and easily. If you react fast enough with Force you can... gravity well? repulsor? Oh wait, the oh so amazing Meteor Call will save us!


wowzerz! 20 damage!? awesome... ever considered super firebomb? it has infinit range and awesome speed, if you want to kick runner butt, this is likely one of the best attacks in the game.


ROFL! This was the best. You know how much damage 1 hit from a superfirebomb does? Allow me to go find out for you: With Gracy after adrenaline rush, 1 hit does 11 damage. 1 hit is the most you'll get on an enemy far away.

Nevermind the fact that you have to spawn a projectile in each hand first and waste a super bar, plus you can't aim it up or down so it doesn't work in slopes (which half the arenas are).


As for your weaknesses, Mantis heavies do 89% of the damage of a normal robot's heavies; I'd hardly call that a weakness. For Pyros, check out this beauty:

alk rp lfireball rk lk <juggle>

same length as Force's longest heavy ground combo, but of course, that's not Force's weakness now is it. Switch the lk <juggle> for a firespin to bring it to 8 ground hits, which is impossible in a Force without using a super bar and having a projectile in each hand.

Are you going to try again with those weaknesses?
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veryorkish



Joined: 23 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Eh? Force can pwn Pyros because most of his move do lift him off the ground and force can spam grav well...
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

I know that. That wasn't under debate... In fact that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic nor the argument we were having...
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Quote:

As for your weaknesses, Mantis heavies do 89% of the damage of a normal robot's heavies; I'd hardly call that a weakness.


agreed, and id hardly call not having a super concussion cannon a force weakness
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veryorkish



Joined: 23 May 2003
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Location: Here!....Wait, no! There!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Force already has enough good moves so that when the runner eventually has to come back to fight, force will trash him. Besides most trash that run only do it so they can spam scc so just refect it.
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eengoedemorgen



Joined: 30 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

My opinion as an experienced Force player:

Force doesn't need a projectile because:
  • Force is a watcher type of robot, saying this I mean he's more addapt to expect the enemies move and retaliate from that move, whether opening a fight in a Force is somewhat hard.
  • Using Force to it's true extend means using the enemies power against him, with this I mean to point at the almost never used Deflector for projectiles, trully, whenever I use it on-line everyone is like, HEHEHEHE! nice one.. the deflector is powerfull against some hars as are his other moves against some others.. true, it doesn't reflect near as much as would be logical, but atleast blocking a Super CC without any damage is what I consider good...
  • Force's bombs are, as you would know pretty well, nice weapons to control an enemy for making certain ways to you not usable for some time because there is something lurking on the way towards you that'll explode.
  • So are his Vortexes (or Vortices), you can use them to "force" (see the similarity in name here?) to stay ground born or eat some damage and a period of non-control over the HAR, with the chance of the enemy force getting a good position over you..


In short, I think fighting with Force doesn't need a projectile just because it total different way that you'll need to use with Force, this bot is about manipulating an opponent to do what you want, or atleast Forcing him to choose another way of attack, rather then await and eat and make the enemy eat..

In my eys, if you think Force needs a projectile, you don't really know his playstyle good enough, but don't take this personal Vuen... if you want, you can discuss this over MSN with me...

Cheers,
EGM
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Force have a projectile? Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Even with charging you can easily catch up to a runner! If you react fast enough with a projectile you can punish a runner quickly and easily. If you react fast enough with Force you can... gravity well? repulsor? Oh wait, the oh so amazing Meteor Call will save us!


wowzerz! 20 damage!? awesome... ever considered super firebomb? it has infinit range and awesome speed, if you want to kick runner butt, this is likely one of the best attacks in the game.


ROFL! This was the best. You know how much damage 1 hit from a superfirebomb does? Allow me to go find out for you: With Gracy after adrenaline rush, 1 hit does 11 damage. 1 hit is the most you'll get on an enemy far away.

Nevermind the fact that you have to spawn a projectile in each hand first and waste a super bar, plus you can't aim it up or down so it doesn't work in slopes (which half the arenas are).


As for your weaknesses, Mantis heavies do 89% of the damage of a normal robot's heavies; I'd hardly call that a weakness. For Pyros, check out this beauty:

alk rp lfireball rk lk <juggle>

same length as Force's longest heavy ground combo, but of course, that's not Force's weakness now is it. Switch the lk <juggle> for a firespin to bring it to 8 ground hits, which is impossible in a Force without using a super bar and having a projectile in each hand.

Are you going to try again with those weaknesses?


You're not gonna get that 1 hit with any other attack on that distance, super firebomb is your biggest shot at any damage at all Wink

when adding attacks like the LP fireball to pyros combos (which would hardly ever work online since you need a.LK to hit the lower right part of their body, otherwise they will either fall or he fireball will miss) you severely lower the damage and add lag sensitivity to the combo, not a great plan.
With that said, pyros doesnt have RELIABLE ground combos, if that's what you wish to hear. And i wonder who you took as the average HAR for that damage scaling, since he simply is a low power HAR.

PS: Pyros a.LK LPFlamer RK RPFlamer RP RPFirespin is the most gound hits pyros can get, though the damage is lower then a.LK RP LK, so really useles.
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