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Chronos, once again
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:33 am    Post subject: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

Heres a trick I knew for quite a while now, but didnt post until just now.
Freeze the oponent with any ONE freeze crystal of beam.
Run up, jump, a.RK. If you do it right you should smash him right into the ground, and land behind him. as he is getting up, turn around and RK. Unless he is the supreme lord of evading, you should have him defenceless from the back. He can counter though, but its unlikely that he would think of it.

Now for a rant...

Getting ready...

After studying the way this game works from the prespective of every HAR, at a pretty high playing level, and studying the mechanics of the moves, I have come up with the solution to why Chronos is so supremely underpowered.
Chronos is intentionally a super HAR, basing his strongest attacks on super moves. He can hardly combo, doesnt have a whole lot of HP, low speed, and low average damage. Going against popular belief, Chronos is a fairly good air juggler. However, all his air moves have range issues, and therefore desync. a.fLK sometimes misses with the first sweep, adn hits from the back as the leg is folded back under Chronos. a.RP often screws up completely. a.LP has backward range that makes no sence IMO. a.fRK has a TINY range, and a.RK doesnt have upward and backward range, though logically it should. Also, a.LK and LK have a range that seems shorter then the actual beam extends. Often I see my oponents eaten by a segment of the beam, but not projected.
Well you know what? Chronos is a super/special HAR. Just why SHOULD he be able to combo insanely?
But then again, think. Every HAR has their worthless moves, except maybe Gargoyle who can link everything. Even a.RK.
(if you doubt it, check it, with mid speed pilots only. RP > j.fLP > a.fRP > a.RP > a.RK > LP. I made that a few nights ago, and TUF tested it. Works better with mid agility pilots then with faster ones.)
But Chronos has moves that dont link to ANYTHING!!!!! And he has THREE of them! Thats fLP, fRK and a.fRP.
fRK wouldnt be so bad if it projected the oponent more upward then forward, and would link to fLK well, but the others...
Therefore, I promote the following changes. DE I hope you're reading theese. Oh wait, thats a balance issue, but oh well, it goes here anyway.

1) Make fRK project the oponent more upward then forward, and link to fLK. Just like Gargoyle's fLK > fRK.
2) Make the oponent bounce to head height from fLP and a.fRP. This would make the two moves comboable in certain situations, reducing their complete lack of sence.
3) Slightly increase range on all air moves, so as to improve air juggling methods, and cure desync.
4) This is probobly the most important of all. I should say something before I state it though.
Chronos has excellent special and super moves. Temporal Ambush is free 11 hits with quite a bit of damage. Super TAC is my favorite move in the game, because it cna hurt A LOT of people agsinst a wall, or project them right into a hazard. Mass Stasis can relieve anyone of the pleasure of feeling happy next to you. Both teleports are excellent weapons of getting to places you want to be, even though both are EXTREMELY punishable. The stasis beams are excellent pauses in combos that let you spawn crystals or prepare for an odd part. They are also excellent substitutes to the counter for melee attacks. And all four crystals are very easy to control effectively.
HOWEVER, I find that in battle, I never have TIME to do any of theese great things! Only once I start a melee combo can I freeze the oponent, and then unleash my arsenal of super/special attacks. Lone teleports are ineffective and punishable to death, as is Temporal Ambush. Super TAC takes eternity to charge, and is very unstable. Mass stasis doesnt catch oponents that arent firmly on the ground, and takes decades to perform. All four crystals, in my opinion, charge slower then Force's bombs and vertecies.
Now here is the suggestion.
4) DRAMATICALLY decrease the charge time for all special and super moves!
I want to be able to do LK > RK > RP > ffRK! I want to be able to do LK > bfLK > RP! I want to be able to do mass stasis in populated areas, so taht Chronos may be a feared enemy in more then just lame 1 on 1 fighting!
Notice, I dont promote that the crystals fly faster, or that the backward teleport take less time to reach the oponent after Chronos spawns from the back. I merely suggest that the time it takes the walky footsteps to get to the oponent be reduced VERY well. So well that I'd consider 1/2 a good starting number.

Flame me at will, but I will eventually come up with a solution that will let me be proud of my Chronos :thumbsup:
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

actually a while back i found a way to link from fLP very un-reliably, but still it worked, let me see if i can get it Smile
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

Want, want, want. Well you're not gonna get! :p
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

Says who?
I supose that so long as I rant constructively and present my arguments with plenty of support, DE may as well listen and try to make the game more fun for devoted fans such as myself.
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 360
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

only thing i have a problem with is that all the changes you've proposed would make Chronos Too powerful, EITHER give it better combo ability OR give it faster specials. Both would make is too strong. The ability to link its moves too well could cause problems imagine a 10+ hit combo - Freee - crystal - 8 hit combo - freeze - 10+ hit combo - freeze - 10 hit combo, etc etc. mix supers into that and it would be insane. You should know how powerful Chronos can be in that situation.

oh and if u make Chronos' RK/LK teleports faster it could make it overpowered as the lk teleport is already fast. If you could use LK tele faster you could almost use it as a counter between moves. The RK one will be also too powerful if its too fast. Against noobs or people who havnt got the hang of counters or arnt used to fighting chronos, RK teleport mixing with LK teleport can anhilate them, use RK tele till they start turning round then mix in LK tele.

Good suggestions i just worry about it getting too strong.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

I increased only the charding speed on the teleports. Not the exection speeds. And dont forget the 1.5 second block delay.
And the combo changes I proposed wouldnt make comboing much too easy. I can do 10-12 hits then freezing easily as it is. The changes would only allow more links, so more diversity. Chronos has only a few effective sequences atm.

And yes, Chronos seems to be teh n00b pwnz0r with his teleports, but that only means, learn to counter Very Happy
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Meowbeast



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 736

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

I've been playing chronos lately and exploring new ways to play him, and I have to say it's been fun. He doesn't suck THAT bad, but you kind of have to know what your doing.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:05 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

I noted. You were beating me SmileSmile
But you basically spammed the RP crystal > LK crystal and some 6 hit combo that freezes me in the end.
I did a 16 on you once, for diversity, but otherwise it was just exchanging the same thing back and forth.
Oh yeah. I learned that RK teleport doesnt work well Smile
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

Chronos teleports are over rated, its fairly easy to see whether its a front or back evade, i trained myself for about 15 minutes by fighting 1 on 1 vs chronos AI, i barely ever get it wrong now Smile
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

There are even multiple ways of avoiding it.
Meorbeast and most others prefer to flip backwards. However, people have yet to show me how they jump better then Meowbeast.
Saiaman blocks, and punishes in my cooldown.
Most newbs counter.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

if you can't see the difference, the best way is to wait untilit would normally hit your block, then evade.

If it was a front, it will hit you block and you can punish during cooldown, if its a back teleport, you will evade in time to dodge the back attack and get the chance to attack them in their back during their cooldown.
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mrsiezen



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 1210
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

Quote:
I've been playing chronos lately and exploring new ways to play him, and I have to say it's been fun. He doesn't suck THAT bad, but you kind of have to know what your doing.



And boy were you annoing Wink
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Meowbeast



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

Hey, I try. :biggrin2:
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Endy



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey, I try. :biggrin2:


Hosting your own game prolly helps. Very Happy
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mrsiezen



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:31 am    Post subject: Re: Chronos, once again Reply with quote

Nah, wasn't on his own server.
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