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Nice Jaguar fragment
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Quote:
...and lower the game resolution...


Why would you do that? in replay mode you can slow it down anyway.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

faster processing with lower resolutions. Hence less screen lag, hence more CPU time for the recorder.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Quote:
faster processing with lower resolutions. Hence less screen lag, hence more CPU time for the recorder.


Im getting it smooth, all graphics settings maxed out (besides resolution @ 800*600), normally i get 35 FPS during fights @ omf, all setings maxed.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Yeah why is it so slow TUF? You should just record it on Nitro speed instead; much more impressive and fear inducing! People look at that and go "bah, look at how slow that combo is, it's no good!" You gotta record it fast.

And technically those aren't all fragments; the fragment/reset rule doesn't apply because there's large enough a gap between the 9th hit of BD and the alk that the reset rule doesn't apply. The only real reset is the OT.

My 2 cents :p
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Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 3803
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

yeah something that slow has no business being named "wicked"

when i open a vid named wicked, i wanna see something getting torn up
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:12 am    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeah why is it so slow TUF? You should just record it on Nitro speed instead; much more impressive and fear inducing! People look at that and go "bah, look at how slow that combo is, it's no good!" You gotta record it fast.

And technically those aren't all fragments; the fragment/reset rule doesn't apply because there's large enough a gap between the 9th hit of BD and the alk that the reset rule doesn't apply. The only real reset is the OT.

My 2 cents :p

No there's not a huge gap :sweat2:
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

I didn't say the gap was huge, I said it was there. You even quoted what I said. Please don't put words in my mouth like that.

If you break a combo and start a new one with a short enough gap, the reset rule applies, and the enemy falls over. You're just leaving the gap between these combos large enough that the reset rule won't apply so that the enemy stays on his feet. The same thing can be accomplished by just pausing mid-combo, waiting, and starting a new combo again.

The reason it's good is not because it's a fragment, it's because the 9th hit of BD gives the enemy a long time to cool down. This shortens the amount of time where he can escape before having you start another combo on him. It's really just multiple consecutive combos; the reset/fragment rule does not apply until the OT.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Well if you define it that way then yes.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Timedifference between fragmenting moves - cooldown of attack prior to fragment - fastest possible thing that can be done about it (either evasion or interuption) defines whether its a fragment or a reset.

BD evade:
at frame 842 the HAR becomes usable.
at frame 854 the makes impact on the HAR.
12 frames between HAR becomes usable and attack impact.
12/30 = 0.4seconds @ 75% of normal speed = 0.26667Seconds (rounded) @ normal speed = ~0.15Seconds @ nitrospeed

fRP > j.OT:
at frame 1080 the OT is engaged.
at frame 1082 Jaguar is above its opponent. (thus out of range for nearly any attack)
at frame 1083 the HAR becomes incapable of evading from the OT. (due to OT's range.)
at frame 1084 the HAR becomes usable.
at frame 1089 the HAR is taken into the air by the OT.
5/30 = 0.1667 seconds @ 75% of normal speed = 0.125 seconds @ normal speed = 0.070 Seconds @ nitro speed.

The only attack in the game that has the rape and the speed to do ANYTHING about this attack is pyros LK, and only in a NO LAG situation.

Honestly i think this has every right to be considered a fragment, since only 1 attack in the complete game can stop it, under rare circumstances. Plus it can't be blocked, it can't be countered, it cant be evaded from.

Anyway you were mostly right with your statement, though you confused me saying the only real RESET is fRP > OT, whereas i would consider it a real fragment, and the BD evade a reset. (Even though when this reset is performed accordingly, it is a win/win situation, in which the only options are warlord LP, pyros firespin, katana rising blade. Most HAR's can't do anything about it, and JAG leap will never miss since the auto direction correction goes on until during the leap.
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Mantis' LK may not hit you but it would escape as it throws your combo off mark, Mantis' RP might catch u depending on angle, his side punches would also stop you before you get too far as they launch instantly. (same with gargoyle.)

Dont know the other hars well enough but I would have thought Gravwell could do it if the pilot was fast enough at pressing em, Upwards jag leap or a simple Jump may also get you out or at least throw it off. I'll experiment next time we play Tuffy Smile.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Quote:
Mantis' LK may not hit you but it would escape as it throws your combo off mark, Mantis' RP might catch u depending on angle, his side punches would also stop you before you get too far as they launch instantly. (same with gargoyle.)

Dont know the other hars well enough but I would have thought Gravwell could do it if the pilot was fast enough at pressing em, Upwards jag leap or a simple Jump may also get you out or at least throw it off. I'll experiment next time we play Tuffy Smile.


When performed correctly, you are behind your opponent after BD Evade. neither of those attacks would work, and in case you didnt know, Mantis side attack DOES have warm up before the drop bug starts existing. Gargoyle side attack is faster but still not fast enough, the side attack doesn't start until after the animation has started.
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NightShadow



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

If there's enough time for grav-well to start, it may still grab you. The attack would still hit the Force, but the grav-well would stop the combo.

I've seen grav-well occasionally grab people behind me. So I wouldn't rule grav-well out just because the evade takes you behind the Force, but I don't think the odds of grav-well working are in the Force's favor.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Quote:
If there's enough time for grav-well to start, it may still grab you. The attack would still hit the Force, but the grav-well would stop the combo.

I've seen grav-well occasionally grab people behind me. So I wouldn't rule grav-well out just because the evade takes you behind the Force, but I don't think the odds of grav-well working are in the Force's favor.

well possiblye the LK grav well, but i seriously doubt it :\
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

I know a jump would work. The Jag'd get in a couple hits, but the fact that you're airborne means that they cannot reset anymore.
A great deal of side attacks could also do it, because side attacks generally are virtually warmupless (with moderate cooldown, of course). The exceptions are Mantis and Gargoyle, theirs look like they have a slightly longer warmup.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Nice Jaguar fragment Reply with quote

Quote:
I know a jump would work. The Jag'd get in a couple hits, but the fact that you're airborne means that they cannot reset anymore.
A great deal of side attacks could also do it, because side attacks generally are virtually warmupless (with moderate cooldown, of course). The exceptions are Mantis and Gargoyle, theirs look like they have a slightly longer warmup.


Most side attacks actually do have warmup, keep in mind that were talking about ~ 0.15 seconds here, the slightest warmup is too much. Also even though jumping will prevent the combo, the last attack in a succesful BD, does 4 damage. Even a blocked heavy would be sufficient to make the evade worth it. Its a win/win situation.
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