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It's all about thrust and range, isn't it?
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Erm almost Any HAR has air to ground combo starters.

Chronos: a.LK a.LP and a.RK. Atleast those 3.
Force: a.LK a.RK and a.LP
Gargoyle: a.LP a.LK a.RP
Jaguar: a.RP a.LK a.RK a.fRK a.fLK
Katana: a.RK
Mantis: a.LK a.RK
Pyros: a.RP a.LK a.RK a.fRK a.fLP
Warlord: a.RP a.LK a.RK a.fRK

This game DOES have enough height dimension, if you fail to use it effectively that's your problem. This game lacks the abbiity to get to the sides and behind opponents. The dash would only make that worse.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Quote:
Chronos Dash > fRK > fLK ! LK > RK > LP > fLK > RP


that MIGHT work from behind, but from the front fLK will or LK will be blocked.
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

I'm not talking about combo starters i'm talking about ground to air ATTACKS, the only ones are specials at the moment and a couple that can trade blows.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
Chronos Dash > fRK > fLK ! LK > RK > LP > fLK > RP


that MIGHT work from behind, but from the front fLK will or LK will be blocked.


Yeah I supose you're right. LK would be stupidly blocked. Good thing the block animation on it is virtually inexistant.
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not talking about combo starters i'm talking about ground to air ATTACKS, the only ones are specials at the moment and a couple that can trade blows.


Every HAR has launchers, whether or not the HAR is in the air after the launcher is subject to opinion. Personally i much prefer Force's LP or Gargoyle LP over Pyros LK. The only difference is that you actually get the choise of whether you want to go into the air or not.
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CloudFFVII



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Pyros' RP and RK can do well against incoming air opponents but that wasnt my actual point. My point was this fighter is Barely 2D so why complain about its lack of being 3D. Air combat is extremely limited except where combos are concerned, to be honest it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to make a truely 3D fighter as our brains are stuck in 2D.

Anyway, My dash idea as i've said before would hopefully be the start of implementing a mobile fighting system, rather than the current static one. (Basically movement should link almost fluidically into attacks (or at least some attacks))
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Your "idea" isn't something that can be implimented into an already existing game. Even if it COULD be nice, it's something that should be brought up somewhere in the workings of the concept. You can't just work out a concept, create the game around it, and later add extra fundaments.
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CloudFFVII



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

the DASH could be implemented into OMF quite easily, and its the concept that i hope would be taken on by other games I didnt mean change the entire OMF engine........That would be pointless time would be better spent making a sequel
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TheUnknownFactor



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

No the dash would completely disrupt the current fighting system and further increase balance issues.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

I personally am inclined to think that the Dash would require the reworking of quite a few light moves, if it be the only change in the next build. It alone would make the balance worse, but it could be useful to impliment at different magnitudes in different HARs. For example, giving Mantis almost none, and Jaguar/Chronos a lot.
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CloudFFVII



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Giving jag and chronos a lot would go with their styles but mantis' fast martial art combat style would be strange if it suffered a short range dash, perhaps only allowing mantis a good backdash but poor forward dash would be possible
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Discomb



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Well the idea behind what I said is, giving mantis a good forward dash would mean raping yourself really really hard, unless you're a mantis player.
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Vuen



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Fine, you guys want me back here, then here I am.

I don't agree with Cloudeh's blanket 'all light moves' suggestion, but as I was saying, many moves definitely need more thrust. It's far too hard to be agressive in OMF.

Let's bear in mind that a standard OMF game is multiplayer free-for-all here. Suppose you take a game like Counterstrike or Rainbow Six, and make it free-for-all survival. You get nothing for kills, you only get points for surviving. What is everyone who's playing to win going to do? Find the smallest corner they can and wait out for everyone else to kill eachother of course.

Hiding is at an obvious advantage with this game mode, and being agressive is a huge disadvantage because you're out in the open for anyone sniping to pick you off. Even if you manage to kill people by being agressive it gives you nothing because one camper can wait for you to kill everyone and then kill you to win.

This is the problem with OMF. If I'm at an advantage to sit here and wait for you to attack me, then by playing to win I should, so everybody stands around and does nothing. OMF is much too boring without powerful thrusting attacks.

It's very evident in bots like Pyros; you have a lot of trouble and are at a definite disadvantage moving in on a defensive opponent. The few moves it has that push forward have either a huge warmup or huge cooldown or both, like rp. Easily countered or interrupted or punished.
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Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Lol.. turtling gest you owned in OMF from my experience. Hiding is a good strategy but thats waht retribution is there for. Whether it works is a different issue, but i think you saying just waitnig there is a good strategy is straight out wrong. There are ways to attack opponent. my problem ios that it all comes down to face spam in the end, which is why i think the fighting system is gay. it may be gay but not too defensive

since you used pyros as an example, ill use a pyros example. Guy just sitting there? Super jump and use air frp till you get to him, then tick his [filtered] with it. Pretty safe and lots of thrust

i dont think you really knwo what youre talkin about, playin too much defense gets you face spammed to death from what ive seen uless youre a bot with a counter combo. the countre system is kinda gay imo

so we both have issues with the fighting, so im not totally aginst you.. but i think youre just plain wrong about the actual problems
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Xaronth



Joined: 17 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: It's all about thrust and range, isn't it? Reply with quote

Quote:
since you used pyros as an example, ill use a pyros example. Guy just sitting there? Super jump and use air frp till you get to him, then tick his [filtered] with it. Pretty safe and lots of thrust


heh i remember doing that to saiya then having him put it in his [filtered] balance thread.
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