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Ducking
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

Yes, you are right about Mantises LP. I wondered multiple times about why cloudeh says it can be ducked.
Look, everything stands quite simply for Mantis. He will have only LP that is not duckable by sliding into battle (of heavies). Then we will simply make LP slightly less comboable. I'm not sure where it stands at the moment as I dislike Mantis.
Mantis will then need to use fLK and fRK to pick up sliding oponents for a low damage combo. This adds risk to sliding in because you cant really do anything about Mantis comboing you with those two fairly ranged moves. However the reward is that you may surprise the Mantis by sliding in, and he will try to own you with RP, LK or RK, all of which will miss him and give him a free combo, because he tricked the Mantis.
As for Pyros, you wouldnt really hit an advancing oponent with RP anyway, because it will flip him to the ground (he is running). The other heavies are slow and the sliding oponent can just stand up and block. That pretty much means that tricking Pyros by sliding is a lot harder, if not near imposible, which IMO balances the game insanely.

But do remember that few people just run into you and start attacking. I for one only do so when trying to supress rage and anger at something. Its quick and it works if the oponent is an idiot, but mostly people prefer poking until an oportunity is given. When was the last time you saw an advancing oponent just run right up to you and start hitting you? The whole sliding system is only a small part of the attack strategy array anyway.
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 360
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

Look make the changes if you wish then I'll exploit all the bugs you create with it, just dont moan at me for it afterwards.

tuffy head height and leg height for hte LK should be the same but it should be furthest at chest height (being a static summersault). However how about halve the range it will pick up a ducking opponent compared to standing.

To be honest if you want to implement ducking realistically it needs to be better thought out.
For example how about you can block while ducking but unlike the current method you have to stand before sidesteping (yes this would make sidestepping rather strange as the key is the same but that would need to be changed). So make it so you can block nicely while ducking BUT are either vulnerable from downward hitting attacks (any punch that hits that low/air attacks that hit that low) and vulnerable to the point that u bounce setting you up to be combo'ed nicely. That would prevent abuse of ducking but as i have said the problems are mainly with aggression rather than defence at the moment.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

It said in the tutorial that Sliding is a good method to come into battle. Aparently it isnt.
All we are suggesting is that it does in fact become a somewhat effective method, as not everything the oponent will do can hurt you.
I dont see any bugs that may come out of it.

OT: TUF, that scouch > hit but may prove very useful. Perhaps some ground combos that are imposible normally are posible with a quick duck (particularly thinking of Jag's LP).
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

Quote:
Look make the changes if you wish then I'll exploit all the bugs you create with it, just dont moan at me for it afterwards.

tuffy head height and leg height for hte LK should be the same but it should be furthest at chest height (being a static summersault). However how about halve the range it will pick up a ducking opponent compared to standing.

To be honest if you want to implement ducking realistically it needs to be better thought out.
For example how about you can block while ducking but unlike the current method you have to stand before sidesteping (yes this would make sidestepping rather strange as the key is the same but that would need to be changed). So make it so you can block nicely while ducking BUT are either vulnerable from downward hitting attacks (any punch that hits that low/air attacks that hit that low) and vulnerable to the point that u bounce setting you up to be combo'ed nicely. That would prevent abuse of ducking but as i have said the problems are mainly with aggression rather than defence at the moment.


You're wrong, the turning center of pyros LK is slightly below his head, which means that slightly under his head his legs should be most far away. About a leg height above the head is where it should equal the forward range of a crouching opponent.
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CloudFFVII



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 360
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

Sorry then tuffy, i dont study the Hars i just play with them.
Discomb its possible that sliding into combat could help.
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Meowbeast



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 736

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

Not everything that looks like it should be duckable should be duckable. Things like mantis rp should be duckable! Because there are not enough options for avoiding it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

test
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MAD_DAN



Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 827
Location: Connected to my H.A.R.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

OMGLOL? DUCK!
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Meowbeast



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 736

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

Quack!
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mrsiezen



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 1210
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

/me looks at Meow's sig

Had fun with Speed lately Meow? :biggrin2:
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veryorkish



Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 3196
Location: Here!....Wait, no! There!

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

SpeedBlade likes to mess around is all he isn't very good at fighting...
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

He's really annoying.

He is funny to play tricks on, though. A couple weeks ago Speedblade was being annoying as usual, with just Nightshadow and I. I give him a vote, but he needs one more to be gone.

FlamingMonkey: "SpeedBlade for President! Press TAB to give him your vote!"
*SpeedBlade disappears for the night*.
NightShadow: "I didn't vote for him..."
FlamingMonkey: "he must've voted himself off. :S"
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

he's the only one who ever managed to make my computer crash during omf. (vortex + 4 dead bodys in the water)

If he doesn't like fighting, i'll make sure it lasts as short as it can for him.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

But he's also whiny, too. He doesn't want people to fight him, he wants them to fight each other while he rains terror on them from the nearest hazard, but complains horribly when people come after him.
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mrsiezen



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 1210
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Ducking Reply with quote

Weird guy he is indeed... [Dr. Phill] My guess he's very young, and in need of attention. [/Dr. Phill]

Once he was asking everyone to vote him off... :confused:
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