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Why is mantis overpowered???
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veryorkish



Joined: 23 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

About the comment "Mantis has sucky specials." is laughable. He has two homing throwables both of which are better that Force's firebomb. He has a projectile attack which none of the throwing hars have. He has the slides that go about as far as the jag leap only hit more than once and are comboable out of.

And for the record just because I can beat a Mantis with a Chronos or a Katana doesn't mean that it isn't overpowered.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Bah thats not the point. I can beat Mordaxes Mantis with a Chronos. That doesn't mean anything. I don't know how people even started going into other's skill levels. Of course Player's Chronos will always own my Mantis. That doesn't show anything. We were originally talking about game mechanics.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

And has anyone else seen Player's Mantis? :shocked:

The first day he started Playing Mantis he was godly with it. I whored him to death with Gargoyle two times before he simply began to demolish anything that came his way.
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Mordax



Joined: 19 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Quote:
About the comment "Mantis has sucky specials." is laughable. He has two homing throwables both of which are better that Force's firebomb. He has a projectile attack which none of the throwing hars have. He has the slides that go about as far as the jag leap only hit more than once and are comboable out of.

And for the record just because I can beat a Mantis with a Chronos or a Katana doesn't mean that it isn't overpowered.


Correction, I said that mantis has Sucky SUPERS and Mediocre specials, and they are

While the slides go as far as a Jag Leap, they cannot be aimed upwards or to the sides, and dont function in the air, they are also just as blockable/evadable

the flies have to be held in the hand for a while to charge up before they can do anything useful, the time spent charging them is vulnerable time, your down an arm and thats bad for mantis

the Acid Spit is nothing special, sure the other HARs with throwables dont get one, but their throwables work much better at a distance

The spiders, yeh their better than Force's firebomb, but they dont work too well at a distance because they still have to activate and follow, the Firebomb can be used like a projectile
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

You don't need your throwables to be effective at distances, because LP Acid Spit goes faster than any other projectile. Same thing with the slide being less useful than Jag Leap because Leap can cover air and sides. News flash: Jag can do that because he @#$% needs it. Mantis has side attacks that combo into the long-[filtered] chains Mantis can throw together. Mantis also has RP, which will never fail on an airborne opponent, as well as comboing into everything.
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Cloudagain



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Wasnt expecting this much feedback in a day, thankfully mordax has dealt with most of it for me ^_^.

Who in their right mind thinks RK slide is a 'godly' move. It is complete and utter crap its barely ever useful: after a throw (on high agil pilots otherwise not even then) or after a super slide (that's worked for a change). There is NO! reason to use it the rest of the time except to throw people into hazards.

Mantis has thrust, hmm yeah his flp (whoohoo) and flk and to a lesser extent rp. Lp moves forward but takes a half step back, frk is slow and lk is very slow and innacurate.

All of mantis' moves flow together, well duh thats the entire idea of the HAR. Mantis has this SINGLE strength and people think this makes up for everything else.
Strong points:
Throwable projectiles (that need to charge to get range - spiders are useful defensively however)
L.K Spit (quite handy for sniping and the odd jab but low damage)
Very comboable moves (I'll come to the down side of these moves in a sec)
Super fly (on here because people recon its awesome, personally ive seen too many people (not bots) just stand and wait for it to finish or super CC or some other such longer ranged super the helpless mantis.)

Weak points:
Horrifically low damage, even compared to katana mantis is weak. Although katana's average hit damage is a bit lower katana can easily get 30-40 hit combos with a decent pilot

Supers with few uses in a real game, Using super spiders just starts a lag war on most servers that arnt just 1 on 1
Using super fly outside of a combo (when it does some damage) is virtually hit and hope.
Super slide......... never works even if it did its still got horrific cooldown but it would make his combos useful.

Throwables that need to charge before they become remotely useful (unlike chronos, force is in the same boat but has heavy kicks to make up for it.)

EASILY!!! evadeable combo's and I've been dedicatedly playing mantis for a few months, I cannot reliably catch people who evade mantis combos, sometimes yes often no...

Low armour, a point no-one has mentioned so far (that i noticed am a lil tired so sorry if i missed it). Mantis goes down like a tonne of bricks (or other suitable substance) after a few hits. Want to see this in full, try seeing how long it takes you to die using Ian or Jerry with mantis and then another har. I tend to notice this a lot because i like the same pilots and i use pyros and mantis.


My rank of bots
Pyros
Gargoyle
Force
Chronos
Mantis/Jaguar <-- Jag would probably be higher if fought with no lag but i dont use personally
katana/warlord <-- both of these dont work right, katana's damage needs buffing and warlords arms need balancing, atm claw and maces are superbly better.
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Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 3804
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

This cant be for real. Smurf [color="white"]a[/color]ss troll.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Hahaha you really must suck hard in mantis. "slides never useful", ROFL!

Only thrusting moves fLP and fLK?
What about fRK>a.LK, RK Slide, RK>RP loop, fLK>RK slide?

"Mantis spiders need to charge up to get good range" NEWSFLASH, due to Mantis mechanics of thrusting attacks he can easily always be close to his opponent, those things don't need range, and even if you're charging them up because your opponent is far away, "vulnerable" MY [filtered], you just said he's far away!

Have you ever tried super fly swarm for real? It chucks away 75% of a stun bar if blocked, and if countered the next fly will simply kill the counter and the super continues. So if you just block it, well the block cooldown just happens to be larger than the cooldown superfly has, so you're in for some heavy face spam (ie: you're still [filtered], but this time you have no stun left either).

Acid spit low damage? You've got to be kidding me, it comes closer to the HAR's heavy attacks than any other HAR's projectiles to their heavys.

No wonder you suck at mantis after spending ages trying to get good with it, if you're not going to use his supers, his thrusting combinations, his slides, his spiders, what the [filtered] are you actually doing in your mantis? Oh wait let me guess, you idle?
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orange2



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 143
Location: oranges

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Yeah Cloudeh I don't think the game'll be balanced anymore unfortunately.... though if the modtools are released we should be able to work on a balance mod together
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Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Oh, its Cloudeh. I remember him. It all makes sense now Haha.
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Lurker



Joined: 26 May 2003
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Location: The underworld

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Cloudeh, about your "low armour" comment... just look at force and katana...
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Cloudagain



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Oranges, I didnt call for balance imo the hars are balanced.

Tuffy, calm down lad and i advise you to use mantis against something other than the practice bot once in a while you might learn something other than a combo.

Edit - Oh btw, f.rk a.lk sometimes shoots through the opponent making it unreliable. Rk - Rp loop..... try it on me sometime, i'll be happy to perfect my counter timing on it. Flk - Rk slide, meh reasonable if you can hit with the flk, no point in doing this except to use hazards

Super fly swarm, hmm sure I'm repeating myself here but obviously it needs to be said again. The range is PITIFUL, its easily countered at the end once you know the move and it takes forever. Sure its cool if u hit with it, or if u can mix it into a combo but for a defensive super it sucks. I would rather have super screech than this piece of junk for defence.

Acid spit comes close to mantis' heavy hit damge, ooooo what an achievment. Pyros' light hits come close to mantis' heavy damage. Also i meant it was weak in general not in comparison to anything. Personally i prefer Particle beam for a projectile weapon as the speed of the shot and variable charge time make it difficult to counter.


Mag, dont think i actually knew you so i dont know what has become explained to you but aslong as your laughing who cares.

Ghoul, Force's hits do considerably more damage than mantis and he has strangely moving attacks the same as mantis. The difference being force can do reasonable damage and is har with ACTUALLY unescapable combos. The fact that tuffy cant evade from a mantis combo doesnt make it unevadeable the same as a dodo being unable to fly doesnt make it impossible for the majority of other avian creatures on this planet.
Katana is a mute point, Even though i dont call for balance I would suggest katana having a higher armour and DEFINATELY higher damage set up because for a war machine its pretty pathetic.
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orange2



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 143
Location: oranges

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

*evaporates*
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Quote:
Oranges, I didnt call for balance imo the hars are balanced.


I stopped reading right there.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is mantis overpowered??? Reply with quote

Quote:
Oranges, I didnt call for balance imo the hars are balanced.

Tuffy, calm down lad and i advise you to use mantis against something other than the practice bot once in a while you might learn something other than a combo.

Edit - Oh btw, f.rk a.lk sometimes shoots through the opponent making it unreliable. Rk - Rp loop..... try it on me sometime, i'll be happy to perfect my counter timing on it. Flk - Rk slide, meh reasonable if you can hit with the flk, no point in doing this except to use hazards

Super fly swarm, hmm sure I'm repeating myself here but obviously it needs to be said again. The range is PITIFUL, its easily countered at the end once you know the move and it takes forever. Sure its cool if u hit with it, or if u can mix it into a combo but for a defensive super it sucks. I would rather have super screech than this piece of junk for defence.

Acid spit comes close to mantis' heavy hit damge, ooooo what an achievment. Pyros' light hits come close to mantis' heavy damage. Also i meant it was weak in general not in comparison to anything. Personally i prefer Particle beam for a projectile weapon as the speed of the shot and variable charge time make it difficult to counter.


Mag, dont think i actually knew you so i dont know what has become explained to you but aslong as your laughing who cares.

Ghoul, Force's hits do considerably more damage than mantis and he has strangely moving attacks the same as mantis. The difference being force can do reasonable damage and is har with ACTUALLY unescapable combos. The fact that tuffy cant evade from a mantis combo doesnt make it unevadeable the same as a dodo being unable to fly doesnt make it impossible for the majority of other avian creatures on this planet.
Katana is a mute point, Even though i dont call for balance I would suggest katana having a higher armour and DEFINATELY higher damage set up because for a war machine its pretty pathetic.


Hey fucktard, i'v been outside of the practice arena, i'm [filtered] world champion, newb.
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