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Newbie Mantis Questions
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BreathFirst



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

Alright..I've finally been able to log in. I am a newbie at this game despite buying this game a year ago (never really had a chance to play it because I was overseas).

Anyways, very cool and unique game with a crazy learning curve.

So I've been using the Mantis for quite some time now and I've been confused on a couple of things:

1. I swear I have seen the computer Mantis combo out of a counter, but I could never do it. Is this even humanly possible? Because I don't see much difference between the left and right counters and they push the opponent so far away it seems impossible to combo out of this.


2. What the heck is the point of Mantis Slide (LK version)? I've been trying to combo out of this and the only move that connects is FLP. The damage is almost the same as the RK version. So are there any more combos or is this it?

3. What is the difference between the 2 side punches?? If you press S,S + P, he will throw a bomb...but it is A LOT slower than the normal side punch. What is the point of this??

That's it for now...I'll probably think of some later.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

Quote:
Alright..I've finally been able to log in. I am a newbie at this game despite buying this game a year ago (never really had a chance to play it because I was overseas).

Anyways, very cool and unique game with a crazy learning curve.

So I've been using the Mantis for quite some time now and I've been confused on a couple of things:

1. I swear I have seen the computer Mantis combo out of a counter, but I could never do it. Is this even humanly possible? Because I don't see much difference between the left and right counters and they push the opponent so far away it seems impossible to combo out of this.


2. What the heck is the point of Mantis Slide (LK version)? I've been trying to combo out of this and the only move that connects is FLP. The damage is almost the same as the RK version. So are there any more combos or is this it?

3. What is the difference between the 2 side punches?? If you press S,S + P, he will throw a bomb...but it is A LOT slower than the normal side punch. What is the point of this??

That's it for now...I'll probably think of some later.


All good questions.

1. I think (on a flat surface), you can combo out of the counter extremely quickly with Super Slide. Also, both counters are the exact same move.

2. You can get many things out after LK Slide, but your foe has to be airborne first, and since it sucks for anti-air, it's only good for combos. Really good for combos, actually. You can combo Super Slide and f+RK out of LK Slide so long as you make sure they're off the ground before LK Slide hits.

It makes combos like these possible: LP, RK, RP, LP Acid Spit, LK Slide, Super Slide, fRK, a.fLP, a.fRP, a.LK, a.RK, a.RP, Super Flies, fLK, LK, fLP, fRP.

3. Yeah, one version is pretty redundant. :crazy:
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

1a.It's possible with the perfect pilot speed, you need to evade forwards, and a.LK, if your pilot is too fast, you'll evade into the ground and can't perform a.LK, if your pilot is too slow your a.LK won't reach your opponent.
1b. You can (RK)Slide out of the counter, however you cant combo out of the TK slide.

2. His LK slide i no where near as good as his RK slide however does have some good reasons to use. I'll name a few.
-You can combo out of it using fRK, which can lead to long combos.
-You can follow it up with the super slide, while the superslide is generally iffy at best, after the LK slide you're perfectly alligned for it, and unless you're facing Gargoyle or your targetter changes HAR, you will simply complete the super without it failing.

3. There was supposed to be added a difference later on, that never happened, so just use the Side+P instead of side side+p.

Edit: Heh, monkey beat me to it.
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Lurker



Joined: 26 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

good answers, FM... I just have one thing to add though

for #1...

If you dont want to waste a super like that, you can do the regular RK slide
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BreathFirst



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

The fact that you guys can combo out of a counter tells me that you people are on a whole 'nother level with this game.
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veryorkish



Joined: 23 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

Pyros is prolly the most n00b friendly har in the game and his counters are easy to combo out of.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

Yeah, and he's pretty fun. But I still don't regret choosing harder to use HARs like Chronos, Jaguar and Force, because in my opinion, the harder they are to use, the more interesting they are to use.
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Cloudagain



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

Pyros' counters arnt THAT easy to combo out of because of real game situations (IE. Lag), this is mainly because the burst of speed pyros gets when he does it can sometimes fling him past an opponent still one of the better counters in the game.

LK slide links to f.lp which links to f.rk and some combos as tuffy mentioned but you need a fast pilot to do this.

Mantis was my second choice of har and once i got used to its style of play my favourite (until i found chronos ^_^).
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ouch



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 501
Location: In a Mantis :)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

Quote:
The fact that you guys can combo out of a counter tells me that you people are on a whole 'nother level with this game.


heh, playing the AI and playing other people are completely different worlds Smile most of us can comfortably handle 2 AI's on master in last team standing, withought abuseing AI bugs. my current best is 6 tyra/mantises. Smile I keep trying 10 but they keep giving me a beatdown.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

the abbility to attack out of a counter doesn't mean much to be honest, at higher level most high skilled players have the abbility to randomize the timing you need to use to counter, this is where the abbility to counter in itself if MUCH better than the abbility to combo from it.

This isn't to make you think the gap is a whole lot bigger, honestly a lot of high skilled players have trouble countering other high skilled players (give or take xaronth and player, they're just odd Smile), but more to indicate that the sole skill of being abled to combo from counters doesn't indicate much, some people can do it, most people don't do it, the skills you don't have won't make you weak, aslong as you have sideskills that make you not need the lacking skills. (An example: Mantis has an insane arsenal of attacks that really dont miss often and mostly autodirect, Mantis has low armour, but because of his abbility to attack he barely ever needs to fall back on an armour.
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BreathFirst



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

It seems like a lot of the things that mentioned here doesn't work on a non-mobile HAR like the one in training room. The frk after LK slide just simply doesn't work. But it seems it can connect *sometimes* in a match where the plain is flatter I guess...I don't know...that's what I can concur.
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Lurker



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

what pilot are you using? you might need more agility to hit it.
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MAD_DAN



Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

You can use f.RP f.LP f.RK and then your air combo of choice, after the f,f LK slide, it's a lot more easy to do Smile
This works even if you just do a LK slide when the opponent is on the ground.

But if you really want to do the f,fLK slide and then f.RK it's much easier to do it ,as it has been said, when you hit the slide on an airborne HAR, like for example, do a RP on him, and then as he is falling, the slide. After that the opponent would have gained enough height to allow you to go and connect that f.RK.

And, the LK slide is much more than only 2 hits. It may do less damage, but the advantage of turning you and your opponent arround in a fight with a human, is a very big one in my oppinion.
It's much more efficient to do a LK slide instead of a RK one in a lot of situations, at the expense of one hit you end up behind the opponent and that's a bigger plus than that 10 or whatever damage you do with that extra hit of the RK slide. Of course , i am talking about the cases when doing a LK turns the opponent with his back at you , if he is already with his back the RK one is preffered.

Besides (excluding lag when the opponent evades BETWEEN the hits of the lk slide !!!! Sad * normally mantis WILL follow an opponent that evades after the first hit, with incredible heat-seeking accuracy and hit him with the second hit before he has time to even realise it -that's the main reason i love this move- , but in lag the latter doesn't happen* ), if he attempts to evade after the slide he will be very vulnerable. I.e. if you think you are a mindreader and consider he'll back-evade, jump back and mega-combo him, or evade sideways along with him to maintain yourself in his back. Anyways this highly depends on the people that are playing Wink
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BreathFirst



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

Yeah I found out that Slide LK is better if it is used in the middle of a combo. And RK is just for surprise/quick attacks to catch your opponent off guard. It kind of comboed when I was using Ibrahim because considering that he does have above-average agility. The thing is that I hate using fast-agile pilots...for some reason I'm just not a big fan because I had a really hard time using and playing against Jaguar. So I've pretty much have an aversion towards fast pilots.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Mantis Questions Reply with quote

Also try combining ground evades with the RK slide, the evade is auto targetting, making it easy to hit using the slides.
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