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Balancing OMF 2097
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aokmaniac13



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 146
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

You know, you can get out of the corner from a headstomping opponent by using shadow's jump kick when katana is it it's highest altitude Smile
However, if that partiicular katana has low agility you're in for a long day :p
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GodzukiTest



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

am i the only one here in the early levels of tournament mode on heavy metal that just overhead throws every bot to death except thorn and gargoyle? then i just D+B kick them?
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

nope. thats what me and robyrt are referring to. just about everyone i saw play omf 2097 played like this:

be jaguar, jump kick, roundhouse, sweep, jum,pkick, roundhouse, sweep, overhead throw, sweep, sweep, jump kick, sweep, sweep, sweep...
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

No it's buy some leg speed, then jumpkick roundhouse roundhouse sweep Very Happy
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raptor
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Joined: 02 Sep 1999
Posts: 4515
Location: Sandefjord, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

Yeah, thats about all you ever need to know to beat AI...

Wich is why we dont talk about beating up the AI Smile its chicken shitt easy, unless you, like me have palyed so much multiplayer you automatically forgets that enemies keep falling to so easy stuff when you play, and continue to try to pound on them with ever new combos and setups, forgetting that Ai have a inhumanly good blockspeed.
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Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 3803
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:18 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

Lol, playing AIs in fighting games is stupid. It's either you abuse their weaknesses by exploiting their scripts or things they cant stop, or you just fight it out "normally" and doing that it's just random. Since they just block "most" things and tricks, and the ones they actually decide to get hit by are just random.
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raptor
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Joined: 02 Sep 1999
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Location: Sandefjord, Norway

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

Well, Magnifico, There are some AI scripts set to give you next to no time to use those abusals.

Argh, it woudl have been so awesome to be able to improve the AI, give it better option for bocking an dcountering jump kicks.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

Good god. I come here hoping to find a 2097 tier list, and I find myself talking about decompilers while too drunk to type. This is just embarassing. Sad
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raptor
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Joined: 02 Sep 1999
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Location: Sandefjord, Norway

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

For a Tier list, look in Robyrt's FAQ. Basically its summarised as: Gargoyle, Katanna on top and Shadow and pyros on bottom, rest is not really that drastical Smile
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Robyrt



Joined: 09 Sep 1999
Posts: 7606
Location: Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

Pyros isn't as bad as Shadow by any means, it's just that he has no hope of beating Katana or Garg or Electra because he's so light and slow. The real losers are Thorn and Flail - Thorn needs to land some improbable combo to kill but at least he has anti-air, while Flail only needs a jump punch to set up his tick throw kill but he has to pray he'll get the opportunity to do one. Nova and Pyros are also rather meh, but they actually stand a chance of winning matches without relying on their one trick.
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Dzament



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 78
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

Shadow...BAD!?!?! i had no idea, i must be imagining the near-unblockable combos that i used to run into against him

if you so much as let them move with a fast pilot, it was over, plain and simple, they can hit you into a 30+ hit combo easily, more if air-rehit is on, playing as him in tourney mode, i can consistently perfect round on the highest diffculty, even against the "Rob elam" character from one of the PCT's, you just sweep then spam F+k till stun, throw, repeat

(Yes, i lurked for that long before posting)
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Robyrt



Joined: 09 Sep 1999
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

Ah, the tourny mode jab infinite. (Shredder can do that too with his f+P, and Chronos can get very close to doing it.) While it does let Shadow win in tourny mode with full upgrades, even in that kind of situation there are other bots who can prevent Shadow from ever landing the infinite - Jag can keep him blocking forever with , Flail can start his own semi-infinite off a move (Charging Punch) that beats all Shadow's moves, Shredder can do his own infinite and has much better moves to get close enough to land it, Katana can just Blade through your moves for massive damage, etc.

However, for this thread we weren't really discussing tournament mode, because multiplayer is 2P mode. (You can fight a human in tourny mode on your own computer, but not online, and we live all over the world so that's infeasible.)

Without the ability to sweep faster than other robots can jab, or mash f+K for instant kills, or even do a shadow move without it getting hit for lots of damage, Shadow has only one advantage: his Shadow Grab infinite on a stunned opponent. And really, if your opponent is stunned, the round is over already with most bots, so that isn't a terribly large "advantage".
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Dzament



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 78
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

The first part WAS online mode, crystal/milano as a pilot gave you enough speed that crazy ideas like <Crouch> > a.P > Dive worked, the air punch can be started AS you jumped so that it hit while rising, then on taller bots (Flail and electra (Sometimes) excluded) the dive would hit, knocking them back, leaving them prey to a combo as they got up

And tourney mode is sweep > J.K > f+p (5 or so times) > DF + P (Again 3-5 times) > DF+K > Sweep, repeat

one can win matches solidly with shadows melee hits as long as you have speed, and possibly with pilots like shirro, never tested fully though (Power pilots, not agil)

if i ever get dosbox to work, i'll grab a vid of the t-mode combo, SP hasnt been too kind lately
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raptor
Ancient One


Joined: 02 Sep 1999
Posts: 4515
Location: Sandefjord, Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

One comment there is that Shadow is very predictable to a human opponent, he have very few moves to accomplish things with, and have to use the same move for the same thing near every time for lack of alternatives. example humping punch beeing just about the only way a shadow have to get close. Humans learn this and adapt, they know what moves you are doing to do what and learns how to counter those. without any real alternatives it makes shadow perhaps the only bot easier to predict than jaguar.

And hes normal moves, while having a couple of fast moves are on the whole very uninteresting and weaker than the other bots on that area. and all hes specials are slow and can be hurt/interupted so it you next to never use a special move anywhere near the enemy where he can whip out some fast move to interupt your special.

Shadow is still cool though.
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Robyrt



Joined: 09 Sep 1999
Posts: 7606
Location: Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Balancing OMF 2097 Reply with quote

I didn't know about the dive thing, I'll have to try that out.

One comment: Humans can block while they're getting up, although the AI has a terrible time with it and switching sides while knocked down may require you to block backwards. So you can't just "repeat" something that knocks them down and then hits them while they're getting up.

Shadow can, however, combo off his sweep at close range: sweep -> df+P -> air combo. It's practically his only way of stunning people besides jump punch.

About speed versus power in pilots: Shadow is more effective with Crystal because EVERYONE is more effective with Crystal, except possibly Flail and Nova. Speed is just so much better than power because the ridiculous combos in this game allow you to make up for having low power.

Shadow is still cool though.
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