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Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate
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aegiskulthran



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:26 am    Post subject: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

How the heck do you beat Steel Claw? He can use Berserker Rage so often that he keeps racking up more points than you. I'm using Katana.
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ouch



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 501
Location: In a Mantis :)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

just stop him from doing it...

all it takes is one wimpy hit and it will stop the move.

general brander has the hydraulics cheat on (creates an explosion when a heavy hit connects...) so be carefull not to fall into his combo while your doing this. luckily he's a cheatlord and useully just spams RP grabbing.

Don't Jags look cool when doing thier beserker dash though? Smile
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veryorkish



Joined: 23 May 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Or you could use a har thats not the lowest of low tier. Just a thought.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

By the way, don't listen to Ouch about Warlords. They're medium-high tier, really. Wink

And yeah, as Strata said, Katana is in the bottom tier with Chronos. I'm not saying not to use it, because you should have fun with any HAR, I'm just saying that you should expect to have a more difficult time in some levels with Katana.

Hey, what is it that draws new players to Katana, if you know? It seems very popular among new players.
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Lurker



Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 4696
Location: The underworld

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey, what is it that draws new players to Katana, if you know? It seems very popular among new players.


When I first picked up Katana in Beta (just to try it out), I found that it was quite easy to put combos together, even if you are just button mashing...
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Like Toad/Koopa Troopa from Super Mario Kart? Easiest to learn and play as, but with the lowest potential of the bunch. Neat.

[color="666666"]For those who were most unfortunate enough not to have played SMK, Toad and Koopa Troopa (extremely similar stats, playing manual even calls them equal) had the lowest top speed in the entire game, but the best handling. A good deal of racing games are "balanced" in this way. It's not really balanced, though, because the expert player will pick the Bowser equivalent (highest top speed; [filtered] everything else) and easily come out on top.[/color]
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Socrates



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 3803
Location: <3

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

^ Not necesarilly true, because there's also acceleration to take into account. Bowser or DK Getting hit by an item can REALLY REALLY mess them up. Also certain stages don't really allow you to take advantagfe of the max speed. They dont necesarilly have the most potential, at least i wouldnt be so quick to declare it. The best SMK player I've ever played used Peach/Yoshi most of the time. Though he switched often depending on the stage, he did use DK a decent amount too.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Those aren't exactly regular circumstances, I can only name two stages (or set of stages) that you can't maintain top speed throughout, and those are the beach stages ([filtered] I've forgotten the name) and the one chocolate stage with the lake of mud you need to cross. The likelihood of getting hit by items drastically decreases when you're up in the top 2 or so, because actually dangerous things like the red shells and lightning have very small occurance rates the further up in position you are. When I said 'expert', I meant that you can dodge whatever green shells and banana peels they throw at you.
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aegiskulthran



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Quote:


Hey, what is it that draws new players to Katana, if you know? It seems very popular among new players.


... I'm not new. I'm a 2097 veteran and my favorite mech was always Katana.

And I wtfpwned both of them today. 3000 to 2.1k >Very Happy lower tier my butt.
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Lower tier when playing against real people, not wussy Master AI (or *gasp* something lower). Playing 2097 doesn't make you a "veteran" at a completely different game, man. Wink

Still, Katana's popularity in 2097 is a good explanation for my question. :thumbsup:

Here's the generally-accepted tier list without getting into too much detail (because that would involve heavy, heavy debate):

Top:
-Gargoyle
-Mantis

Middle:
-Pyros
-Force
-Jaguar
-Warlord

Bottom:
-Chronos
-Katana

Many people divide the middle tier above into upper-middle and lower-middle, with the former including Force and Pyros and the latter including Jaguar and Warlord. I personally think that Jag and WarLord are a little weaker than the upper-middle, but not to the extent that they need an extra tier. I think that's just the "hard to use" tier, really. They're not bad HARs if you get 'em.

Anyway, there is little to no debate about whether Katana should be in the bottom tier or not, but on the other hand, most long-time veterans don't use Katana, either. Meowbeast got pretty good in it, but disappeared or something. He'd be my nominee for Katana's spokesman.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:14 am    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Well, Gargoyle and Mantis are quite obviously the top tiers, there is little to no doubt there. However, Warlord has often be considered the third, because his LP and grappling hooks are an evil combination. Plus, wih a quick pilot he can dish out 18 hit combos.

I'd personally say Pyros and Warlord are second tier. Force is great but its really only good against some HARs, and takes a pounding from the rest. Same can be said for Jaguar. Warlord and Pyros however are good against almost anything.

Chronos and Katana clearly fall into last tier, as Katana barely does enough damage, even if she CAN do 60 hit combos. Chronos does damage and has high priority, but he's slooooow, and has plenty of entirely useless moves. He has great ground moves but his air part is somewhat lacking, considering that he can not chain more then 3 air moves at a time and continue. Also, his ground launchers are easily evaded. Good supers though :thumbsup:
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Yup. The tier list FM said is the generally accepted one. There's basically no debate that Katana is the worst HAR in the game.
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Player



Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 1344
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

I'd probably leave Chronos alone in the 3rd tier, and put Katana in a new 4th tier.
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Meowbeast



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 736

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

Quote:
Yup. The tier list FM said is the generally accepted one. There's basically no debate that Katana is the worst HAR in the game.
Remember that build when it wasn't? It had a nearly unevadeable combo that lasted an eternity. I have not been able to create a katana combo of that caliber since then.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: Ultimate Warrior - Aggressive Debate Reply with quote

She also did more damage, and was way move overpowered then the mantis is today.
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