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One Must Fall Timeline
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raptor
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Joined: 02 Sep 1999
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

One Must Fall Timeline

This is an attempt at documenting the "timeline" used in OMF2097, putting every happening refered to by dates into one document. Thus making it alot easier to check for problems in the story lines. I post this in 3 parts, for making them easier to read and comment.

To Rob Elam: I know you do not appreciate these kind of questions, but would you please read this and comment on the timeline problems ? I have added "easy fixes" to every problem based on what i felt made the most sence. So if you do notwant to read all this you have the option of just saying "ok, go with the easy fixes" and I will shut up about it.

To everyone: I am (unfortunatelly) only human, and is liable to make mistakes or overlook something. If you spot any mistakes i have made, or something i have forgotten etc tell me so i can fix it. I am also open for arguments and discussions AS LONG AS THEY ARE BASED ON A PROOF OR FACT. In other words anything you can find in any of the official material (OMF2097 game, omf2097 manual, omf2097 manual.doc in your game directory, potentionally anything Rob Elam have said about this in some quotable source). Alot of people have had ideas and theories about this game that have kinda gotten "stuck" after so many years that you actually think its a fact, look it up first. Anything that can not be prooved i will simply classify as a "Theory/idea" and thus is irrelevant to the Timeline.

Thanks to: Edwood Grant for pointing out a few things i had not thought of and sparcing my interest to do this. Vagabond and Robyrt for discussing theories and problems with me. And DosAscii, X-Bot, Mordax, Vagabond and Robyrt for proofreading and arguing with me even more.

-raptor, your old goat.
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raptor
Ancient One


Joined: 02 Sep 1999
Posts: 4530
Location: Sandefjord, Norway

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

After a few recent discussions I desided to sit down and write up entire timeline for the world around OMF2097. Posting it here for preview:

Code:

 1994   Hans Kreissack born
 2024   Shirro born
 2049   Ibrahim Hothe/Jihad born
 2058   Cossette Akira born
 2059   Geophrey Moore writes the book; Psychokinetic Exercise Program
 2060   Boxer Marsales Harris kills four opponents training by Moore's book
 2061   More than two dosen prof football players die due injuries inflicted
       by players using Moore's book training program
 2062   Milano Angston/Steele born
 2064   Common Goverment outlaws all full-contact sports
 2065   All full-contact sports have been disbanded per the law of 2064
 2068   Gargoyle (created by: Marcus Knight)
 2070   Jean-Paul born
    Jaguar (Created by: Ibrahim Hothe)
 2071   Raven Born
 2072   Chronos (created by: Arjan Schmalz)
 2074   Christian and Crystal Devroe are born
    Thorn (Created by: Cliff Brussee)
 2076   Pyros (created by: James Sweeney)
 2077   Electra (created by: Cossette Akira)
 2078   Katana (created by: Hans Kreissack)
 2080   Steffan Tommas is born
 2082   A sport named Arena is the most popular event,
       strapped humans into 15feet robot frames.
    Cossette becomes crippled in an accident in the Arena
    Intro specifies that all characters trained from this time.
 2083   Flail (Created by: Stephen Jamison)
 2086   Shredder (created by: Marcus Knight)
 2090   Raven hires Milano as Security chief for WAR.
 2092   Dr. and Mrs Devroe is killed by Iron Fist mercenary group as an accident.
 2096   Shadow (Created by: unknown)   
 2097   Tournament for Ganymede
    Nova (created by: Kreissack)
 2099   First publically shown match, not public to join.
 2100   The WARBot Circuit, is official/public (Tournament Mode)
 


Any errors you can find would be appreciated.
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raptor
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Joined: 02 Sep 1999
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

There are some problems with this timeline, first of all let us ignore tournament mode and focus on 1player. There are only two problems with the story in 1player:

* marks where i list an "easy fix".

******************
*** One Player ***
******************

*** 1 ***

Ibrahim have two last names "Hothe" as used in the Jaguar creator description, and "Jihad" as used in hes ending in singleplayer.

* Easy fix would be to say "Hothe" is the correct one, and all instances of "Jihad" should be replaced/eratta with "Hothe".

*** 2 ***

In the manual you have a "story" or "intro" for 1player game, it is also in the MANUAL.DOC that shoud lie in your OMF folder. This story states that "you" have trained for 15 years for this moment (quoted below):
Quote:
The year is 2097. Friday. You've waited for this night since you were
a child. Fifteen years of training will be used tonight - your future
career the main prize.

This means that "you" started training in the year 2082, There is several problems with this. Birth dates of characters is one, Steffan was born 2080, he would have started training at age of 2. Chrystal and Christian would have started training 10 years before their parents got killed, which was their main motivation for joining WAR. Milano was hired by Raven in 2090, and was technically not involved with WAR before that time. Other details like 3 of the 10 HAR's available was not even created yet, and Shadow was created a single year before 2097, if it required 15 years of training then noone should be able to use it. Ironically it fits Cossette's backgrund story with her accident 15 years earlier. Shirro would have been 58 years at the time, that would not match well with the reference to "kid" later in the story, nor with the reference to "having waited for this night since you where a child.". Even the alternative that this "training" refers to not only HAR training but also the training and preparation to school, join WAR, getting better ranks, and doing better jobs etc would conflict in some cases: Steffan a tad to young, Christian & Crystal not getting engaged with WAR at all until year 2092, Milano getting hired at 2090, Angel showing up right before the tournament etc.

* The easiest fix would be to say the manual and MANUAL.DOC should have said "15 months" to create a more compatible timeline with the rest of the dates used.


***********************
*** Tournament Play ***
***********************

Tournament play includes another piece of story that is only included in the manual. The years 2059, 2060, 2061, 2064, 2065 are from this story text. This raises a few more problems, as well as some texts from the tournament descriptions. but lets start easy, some of the characters in tournament mode have names that can remind of some of the persons that created some of the HAR's, and thus I am curious if it cold be laid to rest if they are the same persons or not:

*** 3 ***

Cliff Brussee = Bruce (from tournament mode) ?
James Sweeney = James (from tournament mode) ?

Also Robyrt mentioned that some HAR design names had similarities with various persons employed at Epic MegaGames at the times ? Either way would be nice to get that settled.

*** 4 ***

Another quite severe storyline break: In 2064 the Common Government banned all full contact sports. Yet in Cossette's background story we see reference to the game known as "The Arena" where humans are strapped inside 15feet tall robotic frames (not HAR) and did gladiator duels. This is refered to as "15 years ago", in other words in the year of 2082. The Arena is also refered to as a common public sport, and as the top of hype for that period.

Yes i have been pointed out that when put into "robot frames" its not "technical" full contact sport. But considering that a game like soccer was banned, that actually penalises for intentional body contact. A game like Arena is still gladiator combat, and is aimed toward causing physical damage to the oppoents robot frame. Considering these where not HAR's someone had to be inside controlling them, thus exstensive damage to the robot could cause damage to the pilot. While i can only assume the Common Government is not such idiots as to pass a law that is so easy to circumvent.

* Easiest fix should be to adapt the law of the Common Government from year 2064, to for example 2082-2083. This way the Arena was legal at the time of Cossette's accident, and could have been one of many reasons they made this law to prevent physical sports. Also since this was listed in the tournament mode story it is not listed anywhere else so it will not contradict anything else.

*** 5 ***

Quote:
Attempt to wrestle the North American title from the two time World Champion, Raven.


Taken from the North American Open description from the manual/in game. Tournament mode is set to year 2100. I asume tournaments such as world championship is held once each year, further strenghtened by the last comment when you complete world championship "see you next year". Ian Tavares is the current world champion, which means he must have won last year (2099). Now NorthAm states that Raven have been world champion twise. We have heard of no other world champions so just to get things to fit somewhat in we asume he won the years of 2098 and 2097 beeing the two years before Ian Tavares won. The year 2100 is the first year with public tournaments, 2099 is the first year fights are shown to the public as entertainment. So this hints at (but does not proove in any way) that WAR have had test tournaments to prepare for the public like in 2099. It could also be read as Raven won the fight for Ganymede in 2097, since it was a "tournament". Basically this means nothing, it gives no concrete ansvers.

* A fix for this, would be to either set "current year" in tournament mode to sometimes later, 2103 or higher should fix most of this. Or just ignoring NorthAm description alltogether since it does not proove anything in the first place. I prefer just ignoring the tournament description as beeing written for "later years".

*** 6 ***

Quote:
This militant country has managed, in the past years, to establish a respected tournament.


Taken from Katushai Challenge description from manual/ingame. In short, it hints that the tournaments have been going on for several years. This is by the timeline wrong. But the tournaments seems made to represent that the tournaments have been going on for at least 3 years or more (see NorthAm above). It could also be argued that each tournament takes one year, so everytime you join a new another year pass, but pure guesswork.

* Simplest way to fix this is to just ignore it, same way as above with NorthAm.
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Ori Klein



Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Posts: 779
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:40 am    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

Applause. :thumbsup:
Grammar nazi:
sence = sense
desided = decided
dosen = dozen
prof = pro / professional (preferrably the latter; prof is an abbriviation to professor)
due injuries = due to injuries
goverment = government (I leard this one the hard way)


Regarding the birthdates, they are quite plausible.
For one, Kreissak being about 100 years old, designing new bots well into his 80-90s...
Certainly, his avatar was one with the looks about it of one who has been around for a while, much like Shirro or the Technician.
However, 100 years? And to think that he still 'functions' as a regular human being, or something, at this age...very very few people had, would or could.

Regarding the 15 years, why not?
The sport might be new, however, one still need know how to fight.
Take Shirro for an example, he has been a Martial Artist (by looks and other information, he quite always reminded me of that Mob Boss in the Spiderman cartoon, big, large, supposedly fat, however as he has said himself, it's all 90% muscles and he knew karate and trained in it every day as well).
Also, initialy, the robot fighting was done via human operators physically controlling the bots, ala Sigorny-BigMoma in The Alien (1 or 2? I forgot).
So you have been a fighter for 15 years, you've been training hard, practicing a lot, and now you've also been given the chance, given the advancement of technology, to do the HAR fighting.
Also, the HAR fighting, especially for Ganymede, probably has been announced quite some time before it took place.
Per your own timeline, bot fighting been on-going since 2082, 15 years exact prior to the Ganymede tournament.
So, you were a child, saw the fighting, and decided to participate, it has been 15 years of rigorous training until you could finaly earn a spot, oh and my what a prestigeous spot it was, fighting for the prize of governing a moon of jupiter. $$
None said you were BORN in 2082.
You could've been born say, 2060 or so, like Milano.
And none said that it takes THAT much time to train.
None said that the others are actually ANY GOOD at the sport.
So the Devroes are murdered, they're 18 years old, they learn of the tournament, train 5 years and enter it.
Keep in mind, even in real life, people enter professions, change professions, train in different professions for various periods of times and in different ages.
You could have a 60 year old who suddenly started learning martial arts, and he's very adapt at it.
You could have one who trained since 5 YOs and still hasn't mastered it.
You could have a 28 years old, who then train in it until he's 35, and what do you know, he's a protogee and is already a black belt.
Takes all kinds...different strokes...

Regarding the Jihad issue...
If you note, every character in the game has some sort of an alterior motive.
Now, who knows...there are talks of terrorists and all that, maybe Ibrahim is in the midst of some form of a holy war to some greater end goal, maybe he was destined to fight for "his people" or something of the sort.
Yeah, so I'm pitching far here...still, sounds good, to me. Wink


Too long a read, so I'll cut off at this point.
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Rob Elam



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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

Wow, that’s a bunch of stuff…

1. Yes, it’s supposed to be Hothe.
2. The intro story was intended as a generic fighter’s story, not intended as any particular fighter and wasn’t really considered to be applied to any of the fighters in the tournament. Even so, I agree a shorter time for training would have been better. Side note, that, as most of the stuff in the docs, was written by my brother Ryan Elam.
3. Yea, names were mostly jumbled up comrades at epic.
4. One thing not touched on is that the world is not ruled completely by a centralized government, and has less ‘civilized’ territories much like we have now (a concept perhaps never touched on in the OMF games, I’m not sure). The Arena was supposed to take place outside of the common civilized world and although not what I’d call ‘underground’, it wasn’t mainstream either. I guess kinda like how Boxing is more mainstream than UFC.
5. The Ganymede tournament was a separate event, not tied to tournaments. To be honest, I wanted Raven to just be a somewhat over the hill seasoned veteran, and giving him 2 world championships was a way to get that across easily. I really wasn’t thinking about the tournament start dates and what not, and in retrospect should never have mentioned when they started at all. I think it’s better anyway if they have a somewhat timeless feel.
6. The tournaments were supposed to take a year, but as stated above they weren’t really supposed to have any historical relevance, and dates should have never been mentioned.
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Zelig



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Posts: 4178

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

Quote:
However, 100 years? And to think that he still 'functions' as a regular human being, or something, at this age...very very few people had, would or could.


It doesn't seem very unlikely, especially for someone of his power/influence.

Quote:
* The easiest fix would be to say the manual and MANUAL.DOC should have said "15 months" to create a more compatible timeline with the rest of the dates used.


Or just "years", it's flexible to fit everybody that way.

Quote:
I guess kinda like how Boxing is more mainstream than UFC.


UFC is junk though, PRIDE is where it's at. Wink
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raptor
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

@Ori Klein

Quote:
Per your own timeline, bot fighting been on-going since 2082, 15 years exact prior to the Ganymede tournament.


Actually I consider that a mismatch. Since by other sources there has been no HAR combat before the tournament in 2097, and training for that. and again it seems weird to have announced the tournament for leadership of Ganymede when the story also mentions "10 just as good candidates" and that include a 17 year old boy etc. and 15 yearsof training an angel jumps up. to many contradictions. i want "official stating" on it.

Rest of your post is mostly ideas and theories, thus you can not actually point at any specific point as proof. we could speculate for all year on this and that, and how many schools Christian Devroe went to to become a Genetic Engineer etc, but it does not matter im afraid.


@Rob Elam

Quote:
Wow, that’s a bunch of stuff…


Yeah... I tend to get carried away *sheepish*


1: thanks.

2: So the OnePlayer story does not aply to any of the 10 fighters, and training period is less than 15 years. Got it. That will clear up alot of things, and will let me remove that part in the timeline (thankfully!).

3: Ah cool, Marcus Knight as well I take it ?

4: That information makes the entire tihng make much more sence. excellent.

5: All the tournaments are set up to feel like the game have allready been around for some years. From what i understood Tournament Play was not something you originally planned to include in the game ? The timeline and story stuff seems to be kinda "added on later" and is very independent of the One-Player story/game. Also the manual "tournament story" says:

Quote:
The year 2100. Quite a momentous occasion in itself, but it will also be remembered as the year WAR finally allowed HAR fighting to become an official sport.


It actually does not specify the year for tournament mode (I had to reread that 3 times before i noted that, and was on my way to correct myself when you guys allready replied.), just what year it was made "official". So for easy solving, errata on the "official date for tournament play" to 2103 - 2105 would not change anything at all, and teh tournament descriptions makes sence again. 2103 would make raven winner of 2100 and 2101, while Ian would have won 2102 to be reigning champion in 2003. Setting to year 2105 would allow for a more relaxed timeline. Just to get a ansver for continuity sake Smile

6: Well, for a game with so many characters, quotes, ending stories etc, i find it incredible that i could only find 6 continuity problems. Good job!



Thank you for all the ansvers! Some of these have anoyed me for some time now, and this will aid me alot in future discussions about omf2097.

Just for reference, was my style of writing/posting this easy to read and use ? It turned out to be alot longer than i had intended.

I will fix up the timeline with the new data and put it up on my site (and pester X-box as well). Then i will add entire discussion here under a Datacube.

Thank you again! Smile :biggrin2: :thumbsup:
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Lurker



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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

I beat the world tournament lots of times, and each time they said "See you next year" implying that a year went past each time I won...

... 20 years later, none of the new robots showed up Sad ...

Explain that one, Rob! :p
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Ori Klein



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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

Only 20?
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

Quote:
Only 20?


20 years after 2097 is when BG is supposed to start.
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Ori Klein



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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

Quote:
"See you next year" implying that a year went past each time I won...

Well, I had about a thousand championships won...
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
"See you next year" implying that a year went past each time I won...

Well, I had about a thousand championships won...


Good for you, but that's not the point of what I was talking about.
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Ori Klein



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

Well, if it's a year each...am I an immoral?
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

I have no clue what you're meaning by that.
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Discomb



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: One Must Fall Timeline Reply with quote

I think you're immoral regardless of how many tournaments you've won.
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