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Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:43 am    Post subject: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

Opera was cool at first... Until the many, many problems with it began to stack up. I can't handle it anymore. It's ranting time.

The biggest problem with Opera, the one that angers me the most, the one that boggles the mind how they pass this off as a browser with such a fundamental aspect so horribly broken: The horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE javascript support.

GMail doesn't even [filtered] work on Opera. It sits at the Loading... screen the entire time. Occasionally, if you fight with it, it will actually proceed to the "We're having trouble loading the page" box. Real comforting. Once in a blue moon it actually successfully shows your inbox and lets you browse around. It's wonderful... until you hit the back button. Broken again.

There are all sorts of ridiculous quirks with Opera's javascript. I wish I had been collecting pages where it pisses me off, because there are hundreds. Here's an example, the random Garfield generator: http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/natetrue/garf.html . When you click Go, Opera correctly loads new images, but it doesn't bother repainting the page when it finishes loading them. You have to minimize and restore the window, or drag something over it so that it shows the new strip. What the [filtered] is that?

Like GMail above, so many pages just 'occasionally' work. As if browsing 4chan is bad enough without Firefox's plugins, the javascript on the link quotes doesn't work half the time. You click a link, nothing happens; it's like you clicked empty space. You have to refresh the page or sometimes even close the tab to make it start working again. Worse, sometimes it half-works; it quotes the post but it doesn't bring you back to the textbox, so you think nothing happened until you scroll up and see a textbox filled with quotes.

Aside from the wretched javascript, there's all sorts of other [filtered] that pisses me off. For example, bookmarks are organized alphabetically, and you can't reorder them. Even Internet Explorer has this feature! It also won't sort last typed in addressses by their use. If you make a spelling mistake ONE TIME in typing in an address, you're [filtered]; it's stuck there as the first entry for good.

Or how it forces tabs on you; even the download dialog comes in a tab. Where's the "Open new links in a separate window" option? Where's the "Detach this tab" option? Where's the "re-running Opera creates a new window" option? I like my things in separate windows, okay? I like being able to work on a document, popping open a browser window and then closing it, and being BACK AT MY DOCUMENT, not back at whatever other webpages I may have open. I like having fifteen programs open and I can't have my web browser screwing with their ordering. Firefox lets me use both windows and tabs at once; why does Opera make it so painful?

Opera also has ridiculous defaults on all sorts of settings. For example by default it doesn't refresh a page if you revist it within 5 hours; it doesn't even bother rechecking unless you explicitely refresh. That's [filtered] fun for browsing forums, thanks for simulating a proxy server for me Opera! It also overcomplicates all sorts of features that should just be straightforward. Like what the [filtered] is this "wand" for passwords? Just put the [filtered] password there!

Also, I never thought I'd say this about a program, but Opera feels like it has too many hotkeys. I'll be happily broswing along and perform a slight mis-gesture or press a wrong key on the keyboard (given that I can't even see my keyboard since it sits under my desk, not to mention it's blank, this is fairly common), and WOOSH. All the images on the page are gone, the window vanishes/resizes, the page "rewinds" by going back 80 times (a thoroughly useless feature), the page zooms out to 1pt font, etc. It wouldn't be so bad if the ability to fix these were all readily available in the menus, but sometimes mis-clicks or mis-types seem to cause things that I just can't seem to revert.

What's more is it still crashes! Things like "pure virtual function call", a blatant programmer error. Firefox may leak memory but at least it doesn't just crash like this.

And last but not least, all this mess aside, the entire UI along with the pages it draws is just plain ugly. The UI looks decent in Windows (except for the fact that it ignores my Windows 98-style color scheme and insists on being blue, thanks for that Opera), but in Linux it looks godawful (and it uses the wrong fonts). The pages it draws always seem out of alignment, and it looks especially bad with forms because it uses some wierd push/radio/combo buttons. It's sad that it considers itself the only supporter of a bunch of useless web authoring standards.

The only good things I found about Opera were the trash can and the mouse gestures, but [filtered], Firefox probably has plugins for those. In fact, I'm gonna go look for some now. Good riddance, Opera.
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Mordax



Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 1584
Location: Mars

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

...and they say that when you fall to the dark side you're stuck there forever

Welcome back to the right side of web browsing
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:02 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

I've never had a problem with Gmail. It only crashes on replies, and only sometimes. Otherwise I've almost never experienced any of the things you are writing about...
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Wraiyth



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 3075
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:37 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

I have never had any problems with GMail at all, not even a crash trying to do something. I have absolutely zero gripes with Opera... except for the fact that I'm not sure wether I should upgrade to 9 Razz
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Zelig



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 4178

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

I could post about Google's sub-par coding jobs on their sites, but I won't, suffice to say that incompatibility with certain major sites is currently Opera's biggest problem.
It honestly hasn't been a problem for me though, I use pop3 for gmail, and afaik, all the other sites I use work fine.

Bookmarks can be ordered however you want. Hit manage bookmarks, right click, choose the view setting.

I don't know if typed addresses can be reordered. I have mine set to remember 500 addresses, and this way, typos usually are gone within a few days.
I don't get typos very often on sites I use, because I don't actually have to type them, just scroll to the right address.

You can set "Open windows instead of tabs" in the options. You can right click on links and open them in a new window. You can add keyboard shortcuts so that you can hold shift + click on a link opens a new window and ctrl+shift+click opens a new background window. Drag a tab off the Opera window, and it becomes a new window.
I use both tabs and windows when I use Opera, usually 5-10 windows with 5-30 tabs each.

Defaults are pretty easy to change, for many users rechecking sites every 5 hours will save bandwidth, that's something I change as soon as I install Opera anyway though. Not too sure about the wand, I keep it disabled, but it seems like a pretty normal password thing, it saves passwords, you click it, and it fills in the details.

You can disable any hotkeys or gestures you want in the mouse and keyboard settings. The rewind feature goes back a domain, I use it sometimes, though often I just open a new tab for each new site.

I haven't had any crashes in any of my core programs (xplorer^2, opera, winamp, bitcomet, ide smartguardian, trillian, avg, admuncher, anydvd) in many months. I know it seems like a cop-out answer, but most crashes in Opera are due to problems with your computer. At least, for the Windows version, I can't speak for the linux one.

For the color scheme in Windows: tools > appearance > color scheme > system color scheme
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Spockmeat



Joined: 22 Oct 2000
Posts: 8163
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

I'm not copmletely sure, but I could swear I read about a mouse gesture plugin for firefox before. I don't know what kind of feature the trash can is. What's it used for in Opera? If it's useful, I'm sure someone will have made a plugin to emulate the behavior.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

I rarely, if ever, find myself on a website that doesn't work on Opera, that includes GMail. I'v not had a single crash on Opera in months time. :thumbsup:
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FlamingMonkey



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

I have relatively frequent Opera crashes (about once a day), but that's because I use Opera 9 beta. Opera 8 crashes often enough for me suspect great evil emanating from the browser at all times.

And yeah, I really don't like the alignment issues, the non-reloading issues, and in some cases (the FlyFF website :confused:) its failure to work with certain websites at all.

But it's fast, so I still use it as my primary browser. But if I want a page displayed right, FireFox is unbeatable, no question about that (and I haven't had your problems when using FireFox).

Although I haven't tried with the standard Opera browser, for me Opera 9 rarely has problems with GMail. I do occasionally get stuck at the 'loading' thing, but not normally. As for the 'back' button screwing things up, that's because Gmail is different in that it all happens on one page. Clicking 'contacts' or something else doesn't bring you to a new web page, like it would in Hotmail and others.
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Zelig



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

There is a mouse gesture extension for Firefox, the built-in gestures for Opera are snappier though. (Or at least they were last time I tried, haven't tried any extensions for FF in months, I just use it for testing purposes)

Trashcan saves a list of all closed tabs in a session.

FM: Opera 9 is fully released now, there's no reason to be using betas. Which FlyFF website? Both http://flyff.gpotato.com/ and http://www.flyff.com.ph/ load fine for me.

I don't really understand why some people seem to get frequent crashes with Opera. My opera.exe has currently been open for 10 days without a crash, and I use it far more heavily than most users. (IRC, bitorrent, 100+ tabs open in total, 5000+ email messages in the M2 mail, loads of bookmarks, a few RSS feeds, and a host of notes)
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FlamingMonkey



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

The FlyFF thing is probably due to mine being a beta, then. Not like I have need to go there now, though. :sweat2:
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veryorkish



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

Too bad only an opera ds version is in the works instead of a firefox ds.
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FlamingMonkey



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

And it's not free. And you have to be in a 'hotspot' to access the internet. I really can't say that I would ever go on the internet with my DS to browse web pages. I hardly ever go online with games as it is.

Having 'hotspots' destroys the concept of portability, anyway. I can sit at home and play an online match on my DS, or I can sit at home and play an online match for a more polished game with a bigger screen (ie: PC games). The other option is stopping during whatever trip you're on so that you can play online next to a McDonald's like an idiot. Because most people going to McDonald's in the first place don't have it as their destination. It's a place you go to on your way to somewhere interesting, because it's so fast. If your target destination is to go out and eat food, you're not doing it at McDonald's unless you're quite poor (in which case your DS was an exceedingly dumbassed purchase). It takes a long time for an online game to find players for your match, so you can't be 'on your way' to anywhere if you're sitting down for a session. It would be nice if Nintendo set up a cell phone-like system of connecting anywhere. I'd play my DS online on the bus. Just kidding. None of the DS's online games have actually been more fun online than offline.
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TheUnknownFactor



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 13825
Location: Netherlands, Drenthe, Assen

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

Quote:
The FlyFF thing is probably due to mine being a beta, then. Not like I have need to go there now, though. :sweat2:


Try installing:
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/

Latest weekly build.
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Discomb



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 4262
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

Wow Vuen, looks like every single complaint you had was answered.

Thanks for the tab => window tip btw, Zelig. That's one thing I learned from this thread. :smirk:

EDIT: Haha, what is that rediculous picture used for the weekly build? Do they change it each time? That would be so funky. Very Happy

Thanks for the link TUF. I like some of the new features quite a lot.
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Vuen



Joined: 31 Aug 1999
Posts: 4968
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: Back to Firefox. Opera sucks balls. Reply with quote

Quote:
Wow Vuen, looks like every single complaint you had was answered.


Oh really? What about the fact that Opera is still horribly broken on many popular websites? Things like this:

Quote:
As for the 'back' button screwing things up, that's because Gmail is different in that it all happens on one page. Clicking 'contacts' or something else doesn't bring you to a new web page, like it would in Hotmail and others.


do not "answer" a complaint. It's like you call the car company and go "My car's brakes are malfunctioning and my car won't stop." "Oh, that's because we used a [filtered] brand of cables and the brake fluid clogs." "Oh, I see! Thanks!" Uhh, what? MAKE IT WORK!

And [filtered] like "pure virtual function call" is not a problem with my computer; it means the program tried to call a virtual function on an abstract class that it somehow instantiated, which is, as I said, a blatant programming error. There's no reason this thing should be crashing.

It's nice that I can spend a day configuring Opera to not be a nightmare to use, really, but with all this pain in the [filtered] to set it up and the fact that it's still crippled, what's the point?
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