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Working with tools
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Rob Elam



Joined: 18 Sep 1998
Posts: 2122
Location: Panama City

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Working with tools Reply with quote

If you're interested in working with the OMF:BG tools, send [email protected] an email. An indication of what you'd be interested in working on would be welcome.
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Ithon



Joined: 17 Aug 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can I focus on sound or music, if it's within the tools?

(if not then I have other interests)
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DDRRE



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

same as ^^

anyway, should I send this thread to blogs to get it advertised? maybe we could recruit programmers, artists, beta testers etc. that way.
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Ithon



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe we should spread the word via email to only our friends who know about omf first? If we get the fans first working on it, then the people who only come in for a month or two and disapear won't affect any mayjor longterm progress.
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Wraiyth



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAY CAN I PLZ WORK WITH TEH TOOLZ
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DDRRE



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in the e-mail that I would also work on the game texts (dialogs, menus, messages, etc.)
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Rob Elam



Joined: 18 Sep 1998
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ithon wrote:
maybe we should spread the word via email to only our friends who know about omf first? If we get the fans first working on it, then the people who only come in for a month or two and disapear won't affect any mayjor longterm progress.

Thatís pretty much what I was thinking.
Wraiyth wrote:
HAY CAN I PLZ WORK WITH TEH TOOLZ

Iím sorry, canít allow your kind in the gate Smile.

Well, the plan right now is to fix a few more things, put up a new build with all the tools in it, then get you guys that want in into the testing program. I'll likely go ahead and setup a new forum for the editing of stuff too, all this will likely happen this weekend.
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Lurker



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already have access to the tools, but I'm not really up to doing much with it until there are sufficient tutorials made up... once people have formed some tutorials, I may* look into it.

* "may" also takes time consumption from university work into consideration
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Wraiyth



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghoul, pay attention to teh beta forums! Theres a Wiki up Smile
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Lurker



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot... But anway, I don't have enough time at the moment...
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Raven



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a long time since I leeched a build of the mod tools, but if the interface hasn't changed since then I won't be able to work with it. I couldn't even figure out how to import a JPG or create a cube or import a mesh.
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Rob Elam



Joined: 18 Sep 1998
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven wrote:
It's been a long time since I leeched a build of the mod tools, but if the interface hasn't changed since then I won't be able to work with it. I couldn't even figure out how to import a JPG or create a cube or import a mesh.

Umm, ok, before I go on let me preface this by saying you arenít in the testing program, and admittedly Ďleechedí the tools, then youíre complaining about your experience on an open forum, quite clearly, you brought this on yourself. Importing a mesh with shaders and images is a drag drop process, it simply couldnít be any easier (and it has been this way for many years). Importing a jpg from the engine isnít supported, it uses TGAs, but the plug-in can import any image Max can load.

Your post demonstrates precisely why pre-release software is restricted, because there are people out there with no genuine interest in learning or contributing to the creative process but love to complain about something they are almost completely ignorant of (and the anonymity of the internet can allow their completely ignorant words to carry weight). If you actually want to learn something, you must ask questions about it, I mean, do you believe that the models and images in OMF:BG got there by magic? Iím more than happy to help those genuinely interested in learning something, but I am not a mind reader, this is why there is a forum where people can ask questions when they hit a stumbling block. This is how FAQs, forum databases, and tutorials get developed, by people getting involved in the creative process, not from jerks on the net whoís first feedback about the tools is complaining about something he chose not to learn, or has no business speaking about. That guy is an enemy to the creative process, and a coward, donít be that guy.
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Raven



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Elam wrote:
Umm, ok, before I go on let me preface this by saying you aren’t in the testing program, and admittedly ‘leeched’ the tools, then you’re complaining about your experience on an open forum, quite clearly, you brought this on yourself. Importing a mesh with shaders and images is a drag drop process, it simply couldn’t be any easier (and it has been this way for many years). Importing a jpg from the engine isn’t supported, it uses TGAs, but the plug-in can import any image Max can load.

I never claimed otherwise.

Rob Elam wrote:
Your post demonstrates precisely why pre-release software is restricted, because there are people out there with no genuine interest in learning or contributing to the creative process but love to complain about something they are almost completely ignorant of (and the anonymity of the internet can allow their completely ignorant words to carry weight). If you actually want to learn something, you must ask questions about it, I mean, do you believe that the models and images in OMF:BG got there by magic? I’m more than happy to help those genuinely interested in learning something, but I am not a mind reader, this is why there is a forum where people can ask questions when they hit a stumbling block. This is how FAQs, forum databases, and tutorials get developed, by people getting involved in the creative process, not from jerks on the net who’s first feedback about the tools is complaining about something he chose not to learn, or has no business speaking about. That guy is an enemy to the creative process, and a coward, don’t be that guy.

Whoa whoa whoa, don't get all defensive on me. I'm not here to complain, I just made a statement that I tried and got nowhere. Not your fault, not the mod tools fault. Like you said, I just jumped in without any examples, documentation, or support since I didn't have access to the beta forums and didn't get very far. I started with full intention of contributing, basically popping up out of nowhere one day with a big old download of alternate HAR models, both new stuff and even the OMF Classic models which I used to occasionally post screenshots of.
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Rob Elam



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven wrote:
Whoa whoa whoa, don't get all defensive on me. I'm not here to complain, I just made a statement that I tried and got nowhere.

Actually, the statement was that if the interface in the tools hasnít changed, you wonít be able to use it. The interface in the tools didnít need changing in respect to your complaints, you needed to learn them. Perhaps it was unintentional, but your statements clearly place the tools in a negative light, and although they are far from perfect, theyíre quite good in respect to what you had problems with. Again, if you feel the tools need changing, or truly want to know more about them, get into the testing program, and offer feedback or as questions in the proper forum. I handle positive and negative feedback quite well, and would like as much as possible, but itís frustrating to me that I actually want feedback, then get some thatís in no way constructive, uninformed, and in entirely the wrong place.

Raven wrote:
I started with full intention of contributing, basically popping up out of nowhere one day with a big old download of alternate HAR models, both new stuff and even the OMF Classic models which I used to occasionally post screenshots of.

Well, hereís the thing, development tools are, by their nature, never complete. They constantly evolve, and if youíre trying to do anything new with them, then thereís a good chance youíre going to run into Ďundocumentedí hurdles, no matter how well developed the system. You pretty much have to ask questions, and be unafraid to do so (in your case, you first have to be in a place where you can ask questions). Also, by asking questions, you create a database of questions for which others can easily get the answers. This is why I want people to be testing the tools AND offering feedback/asking questions, doing the first without doing the second clearly does the tools and others no good, as well as almost assuredly spelling frustration and failure for those trying to do something with the tools. The more people that work with something AND offer feedback the easier a product gets to use (by identifying what needs improvement and building databases of common questions), it is an essential part of making a strong development tool these days.

Honestly, if you want to, say, modify the fighters, itís unlikely that ANY tool out there could make it any easier than these do. However, the fighters are quite complicated even when you learn the tools, the only person that had to learn the fighters (and the tools, for that matter) on their own was me, and I should be the LAST one that has to do it Smile. In the end, there are still many cool things that OMF:BG fans can do with the tools, but without communication itíll take 10 times longer and wonít help anyone else.
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DDRRE



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Elam wrote:
In the end, there are still many cool things that OMF:BG fans can do with the tools, but without communication itíll take 10 times longer and wonít help anyone else.


Exactly.
Like all those 2-page-long balance whiners etc....
we could sit together, open a server and see what's true and what isn't, tweak fighter settings and get a balanced game.

Anyway, when will those "modtools forums" open? I'm dying to join in and polish this game to its perfection.

P.S. Rob, posting your email address like that isn't very smart. A crawler might just notice and spam the hell out of it. Change it to rob _at_ o m f _dot_ com or something.
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