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If there was an OMF3 what would you like to see in it?
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Sabotage



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: If there was an OMF3 what would you like to see in it? Reply with quote

I probably have done this before and I know it's a stupid thread about game ideas, but I'm bored ATM and have nothing to do. But I would like to see if you like the fantasy OMF I'm thinking of or if you have something else you think is cool:

*200+ pilots (including old favs)
*25 HARs (all the old ones)
*3D like Battlegrounds
*Smoother animations and controls (BGs were a bit sticky IMO)
*Tournament mode with a custom bot allowing you to switch limbs, weapons, chassis, tools, etc. (too bad the OMFBG HAR Workshop mod is indefinitely on hiatus)
*Terrain shaping (like a robot getting punched down into some dirt and it tears up physical chunks)
*Wider selection of arena hazards and weapons like maybe even scattered debris
*Diversified cast of HAR types including those on the ground, air, water, and space fighting as well as different means of mobility like those with more or less than two legs or maybe just jets, wheels, anti-grav, fins, or whatever else (THIS is one I would like to see and damn would it add a whole new dimension)

I also had ideas for HARs and arenas but I'd be just rambling on, so I'll stop. What do you think?
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Lurker



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your ideas are quite unreasonable... 25 HARs? sheesh.
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SirHandsome



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good old 2d gameplay... basically my OMF enhanced version that i was promised in my strategy guide and never given!

oh, and online play that doesnt lag of course
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veryorkish



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pilots don't matter in omf
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Wraiyth



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*200+ pilots (including old favs)
-As its been said, pilots don't matter
*25 HARs (all the old ones)
-25 is too many. Despite it being unreasonable... no, worse than unresonable for a dev team, add in a couple more (maybe 12 all up) would be a reasonable number. Aside from that, I'd prefer to see the current ones in BG balanced better before more were added
*3D like Battlegrounds
-Given.
*Smoother animations and controls (BGs were a bit sticky IMO)
-Meh, animations were very wooden but not a concern overall in terms of gameplay
*Tournament mode with a custom bot allowing you to switch limbs, weapons, chassis, tools, etc. (too bad the OMFBG HAR Workshop mod is indefinitely on hiatus)
-No, not indefinitely in hiatus. Dead. Not being worked on because the only person who bothered learning the tools was me. And I'm working on... other things.
*Terrain shaping (like a robot getting punched down into some dirt and it tears up physical chunks)
-Would be cool and not overly hard
*Wider selection of arena hazards and weapons like maybe even scattered debris
-Easy to add
*Diversified cast of HAR types including those on the ground, air, water, and space fighting as well as different means of mobility like those with more or less than two legs or maybe just jets, wheels, anti-grav, fins, or whatever else (THIS is one I would like to see and damn would it add a whole new dimension)
-See above comment on number of HARs

All in all, it would be nice, but won't happen. Unless I can find, oh, half a dozen modellers and animators and another coder or three who are willing to work on it, and Rob is willing to allow us to use the old BG assets. Won't happen
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Sabotage



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-As its been said, pilots don't matter
*In terms of gameplay they may not. One thing I noticed was that there wasn't too much of a difference between many of the pilots in terms of stats other than a few pilots. But that could be because there are so many pilots to the point where not much difference between many of them is not initially noticeable. Perhaps a solution to that would be to increase the different statistics for each, because in Battlegrounds the pilots are judged primarily by like isn't it four statistics? Power, Agility, Endurance, and Focus I think. Maybe some extra stats would maintain more diversity in a larger cast. In terms of storyline the pilots do matter and that is one the things I looked for when buying Battlegrounds, which, as much as it pains me to say it absolutely sucks. But I think that 200 is too much. How about 100?

-25 is too many. Despite it being unreasonable... no, worse than unresonable for a dev team, add in a couple more (maybe 12 all up) would be a reasonable number. Aside from that, I'd prefer to see the current ones in BG balanced better before more were added
*Agreed. Maybe 15 or 16? And yeah, there is some balance issues that need to be resolved.

-Meh, animations were very wooden but not a concern overall in terms of gameplay
*I don't know about that one. It might enhance the experience more if the animations were more smoothly done and the controls felt less sticky. I found it hard to enjoy it more than I already did because of that very thing and comfortability may actually effect the way a person plays.

-No, not indefinitely in hiatus. Dead. Not being worked on because the only person who bothered learning the tools was me. And I'm working on... other things.
*I thought it was on hiatus, but thanks for the update. I wondered what the hell was up with that mod. Damn shame I must say. But it would be cool for a possible future installment.

-Would be cool and not overly hard
*And just imagine what new moves could be added to HARs that would take advantage of that or what new HARs period could be centered around the concept. I can think of a couple right now.

-Easy to add
*Something gives me the feeling it will be done.

-See above comment on number of HARs
*I don't see why new types of non-ground-based battle and HARs designed for a certain type of environment couldn't take place. This could add to the concept of arena hazards and condition as one robot could actually operate better and fight better in certain areas than another making you perhaps think twice about which one you choose. Or maybe if this couldn't be done perhaps then there could be some sort of option to upgrade or customize a robot to handle special environmental conditions.

And now that I think of it a couple of more things could be done:

One thing a fantasy OMF could use is a better written storyline. BG although having character designs that were at least minimally interesting didn't really satisfy. It seemed too broken up between characters and could have used a more centralized plot so that you would have more to sink your teeth into.
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Wraiyth



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way pilots influenced a HAR would need a massive change in order to make such a large diversity of pilots useful and worth investing time into making.

12 balanced but varied HARs would be nice. Bring back Electra, Shadow, Flail, Thorn and Nova, balance the BG ones plus these ones and we're pretty much set.

As for animations, well, I've always felt that the gameplay comes first. I enjoyed the game, despite the wooden animations, but I'd rather it be balanced, have a better Single Player etc all added before the animations were worked on. That was the thing that detracted least from the exprerience IMO

The HAR Workshop team got into the beta and we realized that the extent to which we wanted to modify the game wasn't possible with the tools as they stood, and would need far more work than any of us anticipated to get a working system in place. With a hell of alot of work we could get some of the basics down, but its simply a waste of time and resources that could otherwise be spent doing other things

Things like destructible terrain and more arenas with more detail and scattered debris and weapons won't be added because the game is no longer active being worked on. They were both ideas that the beta testers for the tools came up with to enhance the game, but unfortunately no one else is willing to commit the time to learn the tools and actually be useful

As for storyline and an SP experience, thats something the devs wanted to do but were unable to due to, well, the game being pushed out I guess. Keep in mind BG was in development for, what, the best part of 7 years, so taking longer to write story arcs for important characters and implementing a good backstory and SP mode would have added a hell of alot longer onto the development time
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Sabotage



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12 balanced but varied HARs would be nice. Bring back Electra, Shadow, Flail, Thorn and Nova, balance the BG ones plus these ones and we're pretty much set.
-Actually if you were to include all the BG ones, 8 total, plus Electra, Shadow, Flail, Thorn and Nova that would be 13 and hell, why not the Shredder? So that itself would be 14 if it were to happen.

As for animations, well, I've always felt that the gameplay comes first. I enjoyed the game, despite the wooden animations, but I'd rather it be balanced, have a better Single Player etc all added before the animations were worked on. That was the thing that detracted least from the exprerience IMO
-Makes sense, but maybe what I really meant was that perhaps the wooden animations didn't detract too much from the gameplay experience but making them more smooth would add more to it.

It's also too bad that the time and available resources couldn't be used to successfully add to the game itself or through mods. Sucking shame, but if you ever plan to ressurect any of your work, then I'd be pleased! Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sabotage wrote:
But that could be because there are so many pilots to the point where not much difference between many of them is not initially noticeable. Perhaps a solution to that would be to increase the different statistics for each, because in Battlegrounds the pilots are judged primarily by like isn't it four statistics? Power, Agility, Endurance, and Focus I think. Maybe some extra stats would maintain more diversity in a larger cast.


Or rather, instead just let the player make up hes OWN character, select a picture (thus also gender) and adjust X points however you wish on your stats. I can't imagine why this wasn't implemented already, after all I think we where nagging for it some 2 years before release...

Sabotage wrote:
*I don't see why new types of non-ground-based battle and HARs designed for a certain type of environment couldn't take place.


All the har/robots in the game was motion captured, how do you motion capture a 6 legged, winged, 5 sectioned main body creature with a neck of two times the entire body lenght ? There is a reason Flail is not in OMF:BG.

The general idea of X pilots, X robots, X arenas, X X etc. Easiest and simplest way of doing this is to make a small number of each, and then let the fanbase create the rest thought modtools etc. gives a small (hopefully) balanced core that everyone can relate and comapre to, and allows fans to be creative etc. This is more or less what was intended for OMF:BG but the mod tools just never got aroud to be released.

Oh yes, I'm on a roll today!
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Wraiyth



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modding the game is alot harder than everyone seems to believe. Theres a reason that none of the testers have balanced the game and released a patch/mod with more content. Its because its HARD.
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Sabotage



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raptor wrote:
Or rather, instead just let the player make up hes OWN character, select a picture (thus also gender) and adjust X points however you wish on your stats. I can't imagine why this wasn't implemented already, after all I think we where nagging for it some 2 years before release...


*I'd have to both agree and disagree with that. It would be damn cool and practical for a return of the tournament mode as 2097 did essentially did a lot of that. But in terms of a single player mode I just can't picture it. But perhaps they might even mix a single player tournament mode and story mode into one somehow, then I guess I could go to either way to preset characters or customizable ones. Maybe even making either one or the other an unlockable feature. Even better... If they did mix a story mode and tournament mode into one then they could have it to where you can select a preset character with their own involvement in a plot AND be able to upgrade their stats at the same time.

Wait... The upgrade system you were talking about... Do you mean something like being given a certain amount of points and then tuning various stats either up or down so that you can add attribute more points to a certain stat? I've seen that done in a lot of lesser known and more casual or indie downloads or flash games before, but I don't know if that is what you are talking about. But even if it is, I liked the system of the tournament mode in 2097 where you earn money and upgrade your character based on how much you earned.

Raptor wrote:
All the har/robots in the game was motion captured, how do you motion capture a 6 legged, winged, 5 sectioned main body creature with a neck of two times the entire body lenght ? There is a reason Flail is not in OMF:BG.


Well, I wouldn't go as far as something like that. There is afterall such a thing as excess and motion capturing multiple limbs, wings, etc. would probably be a little difficult to motion capture. But perhaps maybe motion capturing wouldn't entirely be the key if they were to do that. Maybe they could study the way a certain animal moves to and try to do some of the animations that way, possibly mix in some rag doll physics to make it look more realistic. Also, even if multiple legs is too hard they could still do such things as wings, wheels, jets, and things like that because the Pyros used jets of a sort to move and the Gargoyle had wings that actually moved.

As for what you said being a reason as to why the Flail wasn't there, I'm not so sure. If it were to use wheels like in 2097 I don't think that wheels would be hard to motion capture and in the case of the chains that may or may not be hard to do either (I'm no expert so I don't know).

Raptor wrote:
The general idea of X pilots, X robots, X arenas, X X etc. Easiest and simplest way of doing this is to make a small number of each, and then let the fanbase create the rest thought modtools etc. gives a small (hopefully) balanced core that everyone can relate and comapre to, and allows fans to be creative etc. This is more or less what was intended for OMF:BG but the mod tools just never got aroud to be released.


You're absolutely right. If the mod tools were to have been released I would have more than likely been playing as a couple of the other six robots from 2097 by now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrayth wrote:
Modding the game is alot harder than everyone seems to believe. Theres a reason that none of the testers have balanced the game and released a patch/mod with more content. Its because its HARD.


Never said it was, and all of this asumes of corse a fully functional and USERFRIENDLY modding tools with EXCELLENT documentation (probablly signed "Wrayth"). After all this is the theoretical heavens of games thread.

Sabotage wrote:
I liked the system of the tournament mode in 2097 where you earn money and upgrade your character based on how much you earned.


The Tournament mode system is useless in multiplayer for obvious reasons (buying upgrades). I'm talking about EXACTLLY the same as the secret code (oooohhh!) for 2097 where you can adjust and alter the stats of any one pilot in 1player/2player, same total, but you can distribute them as you wish.

Sabotage wrote:
. But perhaps maybe motion capturing wouldn't entirely be the key if they were to do that. Maybe they could study the way a certain animal moves to and try to do some of the animations that way, possibly mix in some rag doll physics to make it look more realistic. Also, even if multiple legs is too hard they could still do such things as wings, wheels, jets, and things like that because the Pyros used jets of a sort to move and the Gargoyle had wings that actually moved.


Yes, it's called handmade by scratch. I wouldn't do it, no matter how much money you threw my way.

And that is btw the EXACT reason why Flail is not in the game.
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veryorkish



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iirc mocap was used for some of the animations.
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Wraiyth



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, it's called handmade by scratch. I wouldn't do it, no matter how much money you threw my way.

People still do it, so don't be so quick to write that off.

Quote:
fully functional

Check

Quote:
USERFRIENDLY

Depends how much of an idiot you are Wink

Quote:
EXCELLENT documentation (probablly signed "Wrayth").

How did you guess
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Sabotage



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raptor wrote:
The Tournament mode system is useless in multiplayer for obvious reasons (buying upgrades). I'm talking about EXACTLLY the same as the secret code (oooohhh!) for 2097 where you can adjust and alter the stats of any one pilot in 1player/2player, same total, but you can distribute them as you wish.


Wha? I'm lost... I never knew of that cheat code before. I know how to unlock the secret difficulty modes, play as Nova in SP, make more parts fly from your opponent, and make robot parts fall from the top of the screen, and a couple of different ones like that, but never have I heard of the one you mentioned. But yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Raptor wrote:

Yes, it's called handmade by scratch. I wouldn't do it, no matter how much money you threw my way.

Wraiyth wrote:
People still do it, so don't be so quick to write that off.


Wraiyth is right. It's still a possibility.

Sabotage wrote:

I liked the system of the tournament mode in 2097 where you earn money and upgrade your character based on how much you earned.

Wraiyth wrote:
The Tournament mode system is useless in multiplayer for obvious reasons (buying upgrades). I'm talking about EXACTLLY the same as the secret code (oooohhh!) for 2097 where you can adjust and alter the stats of any one pilot in 1player/2player, same total, but you can distribute them as you wish.


I wasn't talking about multiplayer really, I was talking about single player. In MP it would make one player a little too overpowered over another with relative ease and could put off new players. But in terms of single player I think it would be kind of cool to bring it back an in an updated form.

Raptor wrote:
And that is btw the EXACT reason why Flail is not in the game.


I'm still not very sure about handmade animations being why the Flail didn't return. I know that you probably mean the Flails chains are hard to do handmade, but even you admit that some of the animations in BG are done by motion capture. So even if it is impossible to do the chains handmade, which I can easily imagine, it would still be possible through motion capture. I mean they can do crazy sh*t with motion capturing I'll bet.

Besides, I think I may have potentially picked up a clue that the Flail might return or some other robot vaguely similar. I think it may have been an Easter egg in BG, but when you win one of the tournaments in single-player (forgot which one) it gives you a trophy in the trophy room that is a futuristic looking holographic disc with a couple of alternating images and one of them appears to be a robot that is kind of tall, somewhat feminine characters, with long tentacle-like fingers. It could be a small hint at the design of either a new character or a returning Flail that may have been scrapped but possibly resurrected for later use. I swear I frickin' saw it!
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