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OMF: BG Source Status
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MageKing17



Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Posts: 539
Location: A computer, inevitably.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven wrote:
Ruining your day in 3.. 2.. 1..

You guys are level 1 adventurers drooling at the idea of getting that legendary unobtanium sword and killing the evil warlock king, forgetting all the while that it's not the sword that keeps you from your glory.
Even if you get the source code to the engine you're going to find so much Windows XP and Direct X 8 specific code that rebuilding it will make OpenOMF look like an unfinished python tutorial. Rob Elam is right to use Unity for whatever his next project is. Everyone here that wants OMFBG back should follow his example: grab your favorite free off-the-shelf game engine and work towards what you want.

You're assuming A) that anybody was expecting this to be compileable right off the bat and B) that nobody already has experience with this kind of project. I can't speak for everyone, so maybe A is warranted (but I already mentioned it would not be on IRC), but B is definitely wrong.
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dvereb



Joined: 21 Jul 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to assume that getting OMF:BG to a playable state on Windows 7 is far from impossible. If I remember correctly, we were mainly hung up on the input in the menu system? Yes I know I won't be running a Linux client any day soon. I'm excited to see the project up on github some day, is all. In the meantime I'll sit back and continue dreaming of my Unobtanium Sword. I 100% disagree that people should "grab [their] favorite free off-the-shelf game engine and work towards what [they] want." I want OMF:BG, and I plan to have it. If I fail, that's fine, but at least I'll have tried. Chances are I won't even be able to get the project to build, but I bet someone will.

Worst case scenario, assuming the source code is released, .... is that I have the source code to one of my favorite video games. I'll put it on a disc right next to my copy of the game, my poster, and other such nonsense that my wife would like to get rid of. ...speaking of which .... where the hell did that omf shirt go, anyway.
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Raven



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MageKing17 wrote:
You're assuming A) that anybody was expecting this to be compileable right off the bat and B) that nobody already has experience with this kind of project. I can't speak for everyone, so maybe A is warranted (but I already mentioned it would not be on IRC), but B is definitely wrong.

I said neither of those. I said I believe OMFBG's codebase is deep enough in Windows XP and DirectX 8's proverbial pants that the effort to make it usable on any modern OS will make the effort taken to reverse engineer OMF2097 seem insignificant.
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MageKing17



Joined: 28 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven wrote:
I said neither of those. I said I believe OMFBG's codebase is deep enough in Windows XP and DirectX 8's proverbial pants that the effort to make it usable on any modern OS will make the effort taken to reverse engineer OMF2097 seem insignificant.

Even if all input, output, and file-handling needed to be rewritten from scratch, it would still be more useful than trying to reverse-engineer anything blind.

Also, I'm not sure why you think code written for Windows XP and DirectX 8 is wholly incompatible with Windows 10; literally the only thing stopping BG from running normally is the input bug, which can be fixed with dxWnd (and according to dxWnd's creator, it was an easy fix).
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Malfrex
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Joined: 27 Jul 2000
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to try and cut some headway off here... I'm still talking with Rob, I got my main rig up and going again (yay!). He also has a "day" job and is working on Sentinels in his spare time. He has some deliverables due early next week so hopefully he'll be able to dig stuff up after that. The biggest hurdle we had was getting ahold of Rob and getting the communication going... which we have now.

Without seeing the code base I can't say how difficult it would be to get OMF: BG running on a modern OS. OMF: BG was built using VC++ 6... this was from before .NET came out. I can 100% guarantee importing it into VS 2015 it will not compile. That is a MASSIVE jump in revisions. I'll have to dig through my old school disks to see if I still have my student version of VC ++ 6 to try and use... if that'll even run on Win 10.

The big hurdle we have with getting BG to run on a modern Windows base is the keyboard input. It was changed between XP and Win 7 (possibly Vista... I never ran that abomination). The signals still send, but the OS doesn't know what to do with them. That'd why DxWnd allows it to run. In fact, it's the "type" of signaling used that causes the problem - lots of XP games still work on modern OSes, we just need to implement the non-borked one in the engine. The other "glitch" is the bloom doesn't render correctly and just makes everything white.

For a possible positive, Rob did say he continued to develop the engine post OMF: BG. I don't know if that included upgrading it to at least .NET - I know he was looking into it at the time - but if he did, that may resolve the keyboard problem there, if we can compile.
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MageKing17



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malfrex wrote:
I can 100% guarantee importing it into VS 2015 it will not compile.

I can't; the project file is obviously useless, but whether or not the code itself can compile depends on what libraries it relies on (if it relies on no-longer-supported Windows libraries, then obviously that'll need some work); the code itself should still be valid even in a C++17-enabled compiler.

And obviously if Rob has to strip any major components out for licensing reasons, that'll interfere with compilation for sure.
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raptor
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Joined: 02 Sep 1999
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And thanks Malf for splicing off the thread :p
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dvereb



Joined: 21 Jul 2001
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Location: Erie, PA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malfrex wrote:
Rob did say he continued to develop the engine post OMF: BG.


Ha! I remember this now that you bring it up. It was an interesting thing running around with the Jaguar in a map designed for a different game. If I remember correctly the player's model was also rotated 90 degrees off axis, at one point. I think the issue was I had partially updated to the newest version of the engine or something didn't save properly which led to some weird bugs that couldn't be reproduced. Leave it to me to find a way to do that.

Now as I look back at my bug reports I see how utterly useless many of them were. Now that I'm a programmer I'm asking my former self "WHERE IS ALL OF THE INFORMATION SOMEONE WOULD NEED TO DIAGNOSE THIS PROBLEM, DAVE?"


And now that you've read this far, this post - although it ended up contributing to the conversation - is basically an excuse for me to bump the thread and ask if you've heard anything back from Rob. Wink
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MageKing17



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvereb wrote:
And now that you've read this far, this post - although it ended up contributing to the conversation - is basically an excuse for me to bump the thread and ask if you've heard anything back from Rob. Wink

Oh good, somebody else did it so I don't have to. Laughing
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Malfrex
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a lot of "working on new build of Sentiels, I'll try to get to get stuff together". At this point I'm honestly going to wait until the new year as I have way too much holiday "fun" going on with family etc, and I'm sure Rob does as well.

If you haven't tried it yet, the game is actually quite fun. It just needs some quality of life fixes... the UI is very much "programmer art" at this point - functional but horribly intuitive. I started to do some UX mockups but then December decided it should come sooner than I expected.
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takuban



Joined: 20 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I didn't realize you guys had actually gotten a hold of Rob and convinced him to hook you up with the source code. Just an FYI, I also keep omfdownloads.com running too so if anyone does have an older machine and installs OMF:BG, it can update itself. haha.

Most of my work on the game was in some modeling and animations (also the setup of the motion capture studio and pipeline). Programming was mostly tool programming and importers for 3DS Max to bring in the dxf paths from the motion capture program to attach to the models. I am a digital pack rat though. So I likely have just about everything that was on the old FTP server around somewhere. Although it's possible there are gaps. I wasn't always the one hosting the OMF domains and files. And I've had a day job that wasn't OMF since late 1999. haha.

That said, I'm fine if you guys use my work in the game for non-profit stuff. Let me know once you get the source code and I'll see what I can dig up around here for other supporting files.
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MageKing17



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds amazing! I look forward to it. Smile
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takuban



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a bunch of stuff. Got a bit nostalgic for a moment. Lots of old models and some that never made it past the initial design phase.

The data I have though is really old and the only character I have a lot of stuff for is Jaguar. Much more stuff happened after I moved and had to leave Diversions. I'm not sure what all is on the ftp site that's of use. I do see a file named OMFBGReleaseBuildGMX2172.zip that's from 10/3/2006. That may be old news or not the most current. There are a bunch of patches as well.

There are docs for the engine (DocBLock generated type stuff it looks like) and a PhysicsTest archive. The physics test archive has a date of 6/22/2008 and the Docs were last modified on 2/18/2007. The docs are generated by doxygen. And are definitely better than nothing. haha

Anyway, let me know once you guys have the source code and what all you're missing and I'll see if I can find it.
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dvereb



Joined: 21 Jul 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure PhysicsTest was the new game. The last OMF build was prior, I do believe. Others can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Smile
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raptor
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am definitively no authority on this, but wasn't 2172 the release version, or close to ?
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